How to select a great real estate agent

Transcript

Peter Fletcher

[00:00:00] Peter Fletcher: Welcome to the WA Property Q& A, the podcast where I explore the ins and outs of buying property in Western Australia. I’m your host Peter Fletcher and each week I interview local property experts to help you to develop a deep understanding of the nuances of buying property in WA. From markup trends to legal considerations, no topic is off limits.

But before we dive in, a friendly reminder. While we provide valuable information, it’s important to note that nothing discussed in this podcast should be construed as personal investment advice. Always remember to seek the appropriate professional advice for your specific circumstances. Now, let’s get started and unlock the secrets to successful property buying in WA.

Welcome to another episode of the WA Property Q& A podcast. I’m your host, Peter Fletcher. And with me today is a very special guest, actually. His name is David James. Now, David, I have known since 19, about April 1985, when I walked into his office in Kalgoorlie. As a very fresh faced 21 year old, I had my black leather tie on, my white shirt and my baggy pants, And I wanted to get a job as a real estate agent.

I, I got interviewed by David and Graham in their big flash office with the Atrium. And they were stupid enough to give me a job. And well the rest is history. And here we are as two real estate agents all these years later. David, your business grew from, the humble beginnings to a very big business in Kalgoorlie that you ended up selling moving to Perth.

Now you’re a sales coach to some of the leading agents in Perth now, and and as a smart man you’re no longer practicing as a real estate agent. Have I changed your mind? Summarize that pretty well, Dave.

[00:02:02] David James: Very, very good, Peter. Absolute pleasure to be here with you, mate, and God, that was 40 years ago, Peter, almost, so, right, move on with the dates, yeah.

[00:02:12] Peter Fletcher: Move on before we forget much more of it.

[00:02:15] David James: Yeah, Peter’s right there. We went through all that. And I remember saying to Peter, which he can finish off the story. So, you’ve got a car, haven’t you, mate?

[00:02:24] Peter Fletcher: Oh, I tell you that, that was one of those questions, in every interview you sort of, you’re a bit worried that you’ll get asked the question that you dunno the answer to. Well, I had this. Old bomb, this old XY Falcon. It’d be worth a heap of money now. But there’s all bomb out in the in the car park.

And I went, Oh shit, what am I going to say here? And I said to you, just look you straight in the eye. I said, well, I’ve just got an old bomb out in the car park, but if I get the job, I’m going to go to Perth and This weekend and buy a new car. And I go and I’m thinking to myself, how am I gonna do this?

Because I didn’t have any money in the That’s right. Bank I had nothing. I had to get a loan for the car and a loan for Rita’s engagement ring. And yeah, I just had no, I dunno how I thought that I was ever gonna pull all that off, but. It happened.

[00:03:12] David James: And Peter, when you look back on your career and those days in Kalgoorlie there’s a message there for all people, whether you’re a veteran of the industry or whether you’re just coming through, et cetera, and getting started, or you’ve been in it a few years, is that, that from a principal’s point of view, which was myself, and now from a coach’s point of view, you did everything that you were asked to do. Whether it was being letterbox drops or calls or whatever it might be. Peter just did it religiously. There was no sort of, I don’t want to do that, I don’t like doing that. And there’s a real message there that Peter Fletcher got started by doing exactly what we told him to do.

[00:03:50] Peter Fletcher: So, so back in the day we had this thing called the White Pages, remember?

Yeah. And because the White Pages in Kalgoorlie was so small, it was acted like a reverse phone directory. It was, yeah. So I’d just sit there at night and just Be calling people. And back then, no, no one did phone, no telephone canvasing. So it actually worked, like I’d spend an hour on the phone and come up with half a dozen appraisals and life was pretty easy.

And I remember, do you remember those letter box drops? I did those yellow letter box drops with my photo on ’em. And we’d put those out and get a heap of calls and

[00:04:22] David James: yeah. And now it just, you would. Because there was no one doing it. No, no, that’s right. Yeah, Peter, once again, that’s another message.

Yeah, no one was doing it. So when you look at those key things, yeah, do what your competition’s not doing, because there’s never any shortage of marketing or prospecting ideas. And I was fortunate, but prior to going into real estate, I sold, Life Assurance door to door in Kalgoorlie. So I was taught how to doorknob.

So it was just a matter of going, well, I’m going to go down Cheatham Street, I’m going to go down to Collins Street, whatever it might be, and knock on doors. And, oh,

[00:04:53] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. Really? Somebody actually turned up. You wanna sell our house? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You turn up and you do, you get the business back.

Yeah. It

[00:05:02] David James: was, yeah. Mm-Hmm

[00:05:03] Peter Fletcher: mm-Hmm.

[00:05:04] David James: Different now. A lot more competitive these days.

[00:05:07] Peter Fletcher: And Dave, as we said off air, the conversation today, we wanted to sort of hone in on, well, what makes. a good real estate agent. If, one of our listeners was sitting at home going, well, I’m thinking of selling a property.

And then, well, how do I assess what a good real estate agent is? And and that’s the sort of thing that I want to talk about. So we’re going to dive in on today if we can obviously we’ll get distracted, but when you think back, when you reflect on the last 148 years, no, That’s pretty accurate.

On the last Well, in your case, it would actually be 40 plus years, wouldn’t it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you started out you started out with Cecil Brown, didn’t you?

[00:05:53] David James: No, no. I started at Brown French.

[00:05:55] Peter Fletcher: Brown French, that’s right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brown French and then Brown James when you and I joined you.

So when you reflect on the last 40 years, What’s the trajectory of industry professionalism in your experience?

[00:06:09] David James: Okay.

[00:06:10] Peter Fletcher: What are you thinking?

[00:06:12] David James: The most immediate thing that comes to my mind, Peter, was that right from that day one, you signed up. That this was going to be your career. Mm-Hmm. . This was it be because, I was no different to anyone else.

I was married. We only had one child at that stage. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . We had a mortgage on a house in Perth. We had a mortgage on a house in Kalgoorlie. And I was going commission only.

[00:06:32] Peter Fletcher: Mm-Hmm. .

[00:06:32] David James: So you had to sign up that this is me, I’m not Yes. Gonna deviate from this. I’m gonna make it work. And I see that that’s one of the biggest changes Sure.

Technology and that. But at the moment, Peter, there’s a lot of people in our profession. Mm-Hmm. that doing it for convenience sake, it works with their lifestyle and particularly if their partner’s working and, they gotta do school runs or they gotta do this or they gotta stay home during school holidays.

When we started, you were in. And it was all or nothing.

[00:07:02] Peter Fletcher: It was all or nothing.

[00:07:04] David James: There was no second jobs or whatever it might be, or your partner earning more money than you, et cetera. And I think that that was fantastic grounding because it taught you discipline, it taught you financial management and taught you how to be broke from in those days, commission check to commission check, but now.

A lot of people in our industry are supported by their spouse’s income, and they’re doing other things in their life, and but if we look at the positive out of that, if you’re really into this, et cetera, it opens up the door to a lot of opportunities.

[00:07:38] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think that we were The professionalism has improved in terms of, were we a little bit wild west back in the day?

And, are they more polished now?

[00:07:50] David James: Okay. So how open is this podcast, Peter? Because it’s public, David, the statute of limitation is going to save us.

Right. Well, I’m not a licensed agent anymore, but I am, sorry. You never did this because you picked me up on it.

So I would say to young Peter Fletcher, mate, come on this listing presentation with me and I’ll show you how to list a property. And invariably I knew the people. So all I wrote on the listing authority was the price and the fee. And Peter would say to me, but Dave, aren’t you supposed to fill it out?

I’d do that later. Do that later. I know them, etc. So yeah, there was an element of that. But that’s not to say that we didn’t, our compliance wasn’t spot on and these sort of things. And well, throughout my career, I was only ever, reported once, which I was found not guilty for the want of a better word.

And that was through no fault of my own. It probably was at the start that I should have qualified these people more, but yeah, it was. And yeah, I think there’s a lot more compliance these days. I can remember, and it would have been in the 90s where we went through a lot of risk management training through REWA and in those days the Supervisory Board and, they tightened down on us, etc.

[00:09:01] Peter Fletcher: There’s a lot of compliance that agents and others have to go through but I sometimes wonder whether it’s actually had much of a benefit to the punters.

[00:09:13] David James: Mm.

[00:09:13] Peter Fletcher: As in there’s the listing form. Back when you and I, when I started out with you, the listing form was literally the whole of the document was on one, A4 sheet of paper was, and the top section was, the details of the property, price.

Bedrooms, bathrooms, that sort of stuf. The bottom section was the listing form. And now it’s four pages of, initial here and initial there. And I’m not a hundred percent convinced that we are substantially better off for this district. The increased amount of work that we’re doing.

[00:09:49] David James: Yeah. Peter, I think that, that can be summarized in regards to, and, I don’t know, but I deal with a lot of people in my coaching

business in the real estate industry. And I don’t know whether I’ve got a really good bunch, but I never No one ever says to me, I DJ, I’m really in trouble here.

I didn’t fill out the listing authority, right. Or the ONA, went bum up or whatever it might be. So I think if you look at in recent years, there’s somewhere between 900 and a thousand houses sold every week. That’s 50, 45 to 50, 000 houses a year get sold. And I think professionalism, yeah, I think we’re really, really, really good at it.

[00:10:24] Peter Fletcher: Mm hmm.

[00:10:25] David James: Because I don’t, none of my clients ever say to me, Oh, I’ve got a major problem here, DJ. Sure.

[00:10:31] Peter Fletcher: They come and bail me out. Yeah,

[00:10:32] David James: I’m sure there’ll be little things.

[00:10:34] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:10:34] David James: When you go to the final inspection and there’s something, and you, and that’s a negotiation to take you through that.

But major, major and when it is major, it appears in the press. But yeah, yeah. So, so when we look at professionalism, yeah, there’s a lot more compliance, there’s a lot more that we have to do or the industry has to do, et cetera. And I’m still with the belief, Peter, that they just want you to sell their house.

That’s what they want. Because they’re on a real estate journey when that happens, the seller. They’ve, they’re, they’re, they’re four steps in front of us. And always say that when you, you put a price on the property and you put that price on, on the listing authority, by the time you get home, they’ve spent it.

The seller’s spent it. They’re three or four steps in front of us. So they just now want us to go and find a buyer so they can continue their real estate journey.

[00:11:23] Peter Fletcher: So, what makes a good real estate agent? The agents that you’ve coached and employed the dodgy ones from the early days what makes a good real estate agent?

[00:11:36] David James: Okay. What do you think? Well, mate, we can go through the traditional things like passion and, you’ve got to get in and have a go and all those sort of things, Peter. Okay. But I’m going to step outside the

square here and, where there’s a lot of people at real estate conferences now work, talk about work life balance and your health and all those sort of things, which, you’ve got to be conscious of your mental health and your physical health and your financial health and your values, health, et cetera, et cetera, the really good ones that, that do, they’re selling probably 50, 60 houses and above, up to 100, 120 a year.

I think they’re very good, Pete, at operating in organised chaos. They are. They can run with 10 listings at a time, or at the moment, they can run with three listings of which they’re getting multiple offers, 10 offers on every property. And, Pete, They’re in Organized Chaos, but they’re very, very good at it.

[00:12:29] Peter Fletcher: Well, I believe one of your clients is Michael Keel. Yeah, that’s right. It still is. Yeah. Top guy, been on the podcast. And that’s the name that came to mind when you said Organized Chaos, because like Michael officially has, I think he has Fridays off, but he doesn’t. Yeah, that’s right. It’s just like, it’s just like he, he’s always on and he’s always on.

Always answering, answering phone calls. I I went to I was over at Laker, over at Lathlane, and killers often over there, yeah, yeah, and I I ordered my coffee, saw him there, walked up and I said Mike, you want company? And he goes, Oh no, not really, Peter. I’m really busy right now.

I’ve got all these calls to make. He says, but sit down while I make the calls. And he’s sitting down, he’s having a conversation with me and he’s on these phone calls and when he wasn’t on the phone calls, he’s texting people and still having a conversation with me. And he’s asking me how I’m going.

It’s just like, he’s got a, this guy has high bandwidth.

[00:13:36] David James: Yeah, he is. And I can remember it would have been one of the first ever bar camps that you organised. And he did a session there. And he said, with my exercise, some mornings I walk along the South Perth foreshore making calls. And When it come to question time, I said, how do you do that?

He said, well, you just got your call list and you just go for your, for your hour walk and you’re making calls as you go. But because we, we mix in the same areas between South Perth and Vic Park and Lathlane, I often see Michael there and I go to talk to him and he shoos me away.

He goes, go away. I’ll come and talk to you later, DJ. Yeah.

[00:14:10] Peter Fletcher: But if you sat there, you’d talk to him.

[00:14:12] David James: Yeah, yeah. So, so that, that organised, and plus Peter, they have really, really. Strong work ethic, and if you’re in the middle of something and it means you’ve got to work an extra hour after 6 o’clock tonight, that’s what they do.

Or they come in and start an hour earlier, etc. So they have a really strong work ethic.

[00:14:31] Peter Fletcher: How does that show up for a seller? I’m thinking that it shows up in returned phone calls, phone calls being returned immediately or one step better is to actually take your phone call.

[00:14:47] David James: Yeah. Couldn’t agree with you more on that.

Yeah. I think, Peter, that it I have a little saying that you need to return all calls before sunset and don’t leave them till the next day. I think by doing that, and doing what you said you were going to do, that that’s what those top agents do. So how it benefits a seller, I think it shows sincerity, Peter.

[00:15:08] Peter Fletcher: Mm, mm.

[00:15:08] David James: I think it shows that you’re really sincere in getting the job done for them. Not only in today’s market, but you’ll recall, Six, seven years ago, property was on the mark of 60 days. And your total stress was based around every Monday morning calls to your sellers to ask for another price reduction.

But you did that. And I think that , the reward to the seller is, I reckon it shows sincerity.

[00:15:32] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. And what it, I guess what it feels like, if somebody was thinking about employing an agent what they would experience when they’re first interacting with the agent is a responsiveness, like an instantaneous responsiveness.

There wouldn’t be this lag in, in In calls coming back to them, it’d be just like instant.

[00:15:55] David James: Yeah. Without a doubt. What, well, response time is very, very important in today’s market. And you made a very good point a

moment ago about making the call, taking the call. If I sat here now and did 10 calls to real estate reps, as in cold calls, Selling my coaching service.

I might connect with one, but they tell me, Oh, no DJ, then we ring them back cause we get their name and we get their number and we can go into RP data and all these sort of things. Yeah, me too. Speak to people because in our industry, yeah. Phone call. Yeah, without a doubt. Because one of the key things of our industry is we cannot sell anything.

We cannot sell something until we speak to somebody. Start the relationship off.

[00:16:38] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. And what about texts? Like is there, has things moved on from phone calls? Because you and I remember like for, the longest time it was always in order of priority. It’s face to face.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Phone call. Or, letter slash email, like, that’s the effectiveness level, and so, but a lot of times, phone, people actually don’t want to talk on their phone now. Is it, would that be fair to say? Yeah,

[00:17:10] David James: I think the key at the listening slash sales presentation is to say to people, how would you like me to communicate with you?

And the other thing I say, what is the best time of the day? Because there’s so many shift workers in our population these days. If someone says, well, DJ, if you don’t mind, I’m happy for you to ring me at 6. 30 in the morning. Cause that’s when I’m driving from one side of Perth to the other.

Yeah. Ask them, how do you want me to communicate? When do you want me to communicate? What form of communication? And if they want a text message after the home opened, yeah. Text them. If they want, they sell a report, which we do anyway, but I, up front, and the other thing also, Peter, is that, that was forced upon us through COVID was Zoom or FaceTime, etc.

Well, would you? No, wouldn’t mind. Look, I don’t get in till 7. 30 every night. If you want to, if you want to send me an appointment booking on Zoom, let’s just catch up for 15 minutes there. So we’ve got all those lots of different forms, but we need to establish with our seller what’s going to work with them.

For them.

[00:18:11] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. Yeah. So to a seller, to a prospective seller, what is, what does a good real estate agent look like? And I’m thinking that they’d have some sort of local track record?

[00:18:25] David James: Yeah. But you need the track record. And when you say local track record what are they doing in the community?

Are they a good citizen? Because if you are involved in your community, they’ll see you at the school fight. They’ll see you at the school pickup. They’ll see you at the kids sport, et cetera. So that’s, they see you as a good citizen, but it will get back to your track record.

[00:18:49] Peter Fletcher: Talking about good citizen, David, now that’s a really good point. So we both know Somebody, and I’m going to mention his name because he’s a bit of a legend, Ron French. Yep. And like Ron and I worked for you at the same time. Ron was there, well, he was, he was the Brown French back in the day.

And he was, um. And he was actively involved in the community, wasn’t

[00:19:14] David James: he? Unbelievable. He was in, I can name them, football.

[00:19:18] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:19:18] David James: Cricket.

[00:19:19] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:19:19] David James: Darts. Uh, there was other things probably as well, but yeah. Ronnie was that, that was his prospecting Peter.

[00:19:28] Peter Fletcher: It was. And do you remember he used to leave about 4.

30 on just about every night of the week and he’d say Oh, well, I’m off to do an appraisal, and he’d pick up his listing folder and head out the door, and you’d say, bullshit, he’s not going to an appraisal, he’s going to the footy club. Yeah, that’s right, yeah. And sure enough, he would, but next day, he’d come in with a listing form filled in and signed.

Yes, without doubt. He was an absolute

[00:19:56] David James: jet. He was, yeah, very. And he was actively involved in those sporting clubs and that as well. He didn’t just go as a spectator. He was the president or the secretary or the treasurer or whatever it might be. But that was his form of prospecting. And, Myself, I learned a lot from that and at various stages, I was actively involved in sporting and the fact that I was brought up in Kalgoorlie, left Kalgoorlie for a number of years and went back again.

But Peter I remember the brother Pat, the principal of the Catholic high school where, where Sarah was going to school, approached me and said, we’d like to, you to be on the board. Well mate, I think I was on the board for three years. I still got no idea what Catholic education was all about, but.

But it opened you up to a new bunch of people, Peter, that I would otherwise not meet.

[00:20:40] Peter Fletcher: Yes,

[00:20:41] David James: yes. And, and that’s the value of it.

[00:20:43] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, yeah. Do you think that in country towns it’s easier to do that sort of thing? Or, or is that just something imagined that

[00:20:52] David James: No, I think it’s something imagined, yeah, because like, you Like if we’re here in Vic Park, for example.

You just killed the camera. Sorry, Peter. If we’re here in Vic Park where we are today, and you were, you’ve had a connection here for a number of years prior to coming into real estate, there’s no reason why you can’t continue that connection on. Yes. And you can still be part of the community.

Yeah.

[00:21:15] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:16] David James: Yeah. See. On the stairs going up here, I see there’s a community garden

[00:21:21] Peter Fletcher: down

[00:21:21] David James: here. Well, I stopped and had a look at that and I thought, if I was selling today, what could I do there? What could I do there? It’s

[00:21:28] Peter Fletcher: funny you should say that because my ex business partner, Jay Wood, and his then partner, Joe Mucci, were part of the There you go.

People that set that thing up. There you

[00:21:40] David James: go.

[00:21:40] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. Yeah. They were very actively involved in that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there was an old PFR sign on there. Oh, is that right?

[00:21:46] David James: Well, there you go. Yeah. For

[00:21:47] Peter Fletcher: a while. Yeah. Yeah. So.

[00:21:49] David James: Now, I think it’s just one of these things in real estate that’s, it’s a myth.

If you, see, a potential seller can’t contact you, Pete, if they don’t know you.

[00:21:58] Peter Fletcher: Mm.

[00:21:58] David James: If they don’t know you well, they just can’t contact you. But they can know you and I say a few things about that, they can know you through their letterbox.

[00:22:05] Peter Fletcher: Mm-Hmm.

[00:22:06] David James: through their inbox, through their digital box.

[00:22:08] Peter Fletcher: Mm-Hmm. through

[00:22:08] David James: their face box and through their, their ear box.

[00:22:10] Peter Fletcher: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. .

[00:22:11] David James: And on the face side of it that that’s where, that’s where you see, and I say to people, well, how often do you come here for a cup of coffee? Oh, I don’t dj I’m meeting you here today.

[00:22:19] Peter Fletcher: Mm-Hmm. . Well,

[00:22:20] David James: is this your patch?

Yeah. Well, you need to come here regularly. Mm-Hmm. .

[00:22:23] Peter Fletcher: That’s

[00:22:23] David James: why Mike. Parks himself over at Laker.

[00:22:26] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:22:26] David James: Mm-Hmm.

[00:22:27] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. I, I think there’s, there’s probably enjoys himself there, but I think there’s a strategic element to that. There would be just as Derek Baston. Yeah. Derek and Lee, you’ll find them after their runs on, on in, in the mornings sitting down at social manner in Yeah.

In in Vic Park and, Mm-Hmm. Chatting to all their friends and I see Derek in there talking to local builders and so on. And that’s their way of kind of like, they’re almost doing this reality show, like a reality TV show without the cameras. It’s like, everyone’s saying, oh, that’s Derek Baston, the local real estate agent.

It’s good stuff. But Pete,

[00:23:07] David James: you can connect through the com, the community through your social media as well. And Natalie Hoy does it exceptionally well, so yeah, she does. If you were living over Mount Lawley that way over there and you wanna to know where to go for dinner tonight, you go into her social media, and here’s a new restaurant, here’s a new coffee shop.

Here’s where you get the best ice cream.

[00:23:25] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. Well.

[00:23:26] David James: So she’s building a following,

[00:23:28] Peter Fletcher: and

[00:23:29] David James: I call those followers then, they have a non verbal relationship with us, meaning they’ve never met us, they’ve never talked to us,

but they feel they’ve got a relationship with us by either the physical presence or the social media presence.

[00:23:43] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, yeah. Now talking about social media, David, I spoke to this guy that I know pretty well, and I said to him once, oh Dave, You need to get on Facebook, David. Well, what do I need to get on that bloody stuff for? Waste their time. What do people want to know what I’ve had for lunch? Now you’ve got like a gazillion followers.

Yeah, I have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Instagram and

[00:24:14] David James: Peter, I can. I know the coffee shop that we talked about that and I said, what, what have you got there, Petey? He said, Oh, this is an iPad. An iPad? Oh, right. Okay. Well, what do I do with that? Yeah. So, so no, Peter, I have a lot to thank you for in that regard. And I do my videos, my podcast yeah, yeah, yeah, the lot.

Yeah. My blogs are video, not written blogs.

[00:24:35] Peter Fletcher: But I think that, for real estate agents, Dave, and. I’m certainly wasn’t chasing accolades there by any means the point being that Facebook or social media gives people the opportunity to share their knowledge with the world.

Yeah. And do it in a way that is not, is just like, here’s my knowledge, here’s what I know.

[00:24:57] David James: Hmm.

[00:24:57] Peter Fletcher: And if you want to take this further, Then reach out. Yeah. It’s, I think it’s a pretty good way to do business, to be honest.

[00:25:07] David James: It is. And that knowledge that you can share, you can separate yourself from the rest of the market then, Peter.

Like we went through, and I don’t see as many these days, but we went through a period there a couple of years ago where every social media post was one home open, 50 people through seven offers sold at a hundred grand above the asking price. Well, That was the marketing, but why would someone select you?

Because your competition’s doing that as well. And so you’re just, you’re putting yourself out there, but if you did a market report at the end of the month, et

cetera, and videoed it and you’re in the local park or you’re outside the local coffee shop or whatever. That’s separating you. So you’ve just got to be conscious that you’re not doing what everyone else is doing.

And the second thing, whatever you do elect to do, you’ve got to do it consistently. And I know sometimes with my videos, it’s like, oh, you’ve got to be kidding me. I’m going to go and do this tomorrow, but I’ve got to write the scripts. I’ve got to write the dialogue. It’s consistency. Yes,

[00:26:04] Peter Fletcher: yes, yes. And And you’ve got into podcasts yourself with Ross the sales athlete podcast.

That’s it. I should have introduced you as like a podcaster as well. Yeah. And is that working for you? And do you think there’s an opportunity for real estate agents to do, to get into podcasting? Yeah,

[00:26:24] David James: I do. Yeah. Yeah. And Pete, because we’ve got access to those podcasts in a, from a multiple timeframe.

I can listen to one on the way to work. I can listen to like, we’re closely associated with Esperance.

[00:26:37] Peter Fletcher: Well,

[00:26:38] David James: Cheryl and I listen to podcasts and or you can get up in the morning. So a lot of those short, sharp ones are only go for five minutes. Well, that’s all five minutes a day.

And you’re going to increase your well, your knowledge quite considerably. So it gives you as a, as a listener. So many different time span opportunities to listen and comprehend what you’re learning and listening to from those podcasts, but yeah, for sure.

[00:27:05] Peter Fletcher: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think there’s a wonderful opportunity for well, I know in my case, I like to have smart people on this podcast.

[00:27:16] David James: Oh, thank you, Peter.

[00:27:17] Peter Fletcher: People like yourself, Dave, who’s taught me a good bit. You wouldn’t have, you wouldn’t have thought that. I just go yeah, just as a, well, Share your knowledge with my community or with our community and I just think it’s a wonderful, wonderful way to market yourself. Well, yeah,

[00:27:36] David James: it is, yeah, because everyone’s got, like you had Young Prash on here.

Yes. Yeah. And I remember the first day he started, it was like, Oh, DJ, what do I do now? And look where he’s taken his auctioneer career, for example. So if you’re interested in auctioneering, he’s the person to talk to.

[00:27:53] Peter Fletcher: Yes.

[00:27:54] David James: And But

[00:27:55] Peter Fletcher: that’s amazing, isn’t it? He, cause he literally started from, from scratch and he has worked his little butt off.

He

[00:28:03] David James: has. Yeah. Yeah. And very energetic and very, so he’s one of those ones that’s all in Peter.

[00:28:08] Peter Fletcher: Yes.

[00:28:09] David James: All in. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yes.

[00:28:11] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. I wonder, I don’t think that it’s possible for a really good real estate agent to be anything but all in.

[00:28:20] David James: Not today. It’s too competitive out there, Peter.

[00:28:23] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:28:23] David James: And so you go back to when we started, it was regulated fees.

[00:28:28] Peter Fletcher: Mm hmm.

[00:28:28] David James: So that wasn’t the problem. What we came up against was overpricing of listings, etc.

[00:28:33] Peter Fletcher: And,

[00:28:33] David James: and that was our main competition. But now, you can have the greatest listing presentation, and I’ll talk about it in a moment as well,

and someone’s going to list it for more than you yeah. And I think when that starts to happen and when you’re feeling that at the listing presentation, it’s actually not a listing presentation, Peter. It’s a sales presentation.

[00:28:53] Peter Fletcher: And

[00:28:53] David James: that seller’s going to sell you on no or you’re going to sell them on yes.

[00:28:57] Peter Fletcher: And

[00:28:58] David James: so if we change our mindset from a listing presentation to a sales presentation, we’re then qualified to compete in regards to the price of the property and the amount of our fee.

[00:29:11] Peter Fletcher: I I asked, Peter Robertson. I ask a lot of real estate agents, and I the question is, well, what do you think of scripts and dialogues? And part of me goes, yeah, well, it’s a toolkit. They served me well. I was a great devotee of Tom Hopkins. Yes, we were. Yep, yep. Dave Stone, but particularly Tom Hopkins.

We used to get the videos. We had them, do you remember that we had them shipped down from Kalgoorlie, up from Perth. They were in Perth, down in Kalgoorlie and, well, he was all we had. Yeah, he was, yes. And but scripts and dialogues I think only get you so far. And then the next stage is. People like Natalie Hoy, who they have got this whole different presence.

And I think a Natalie Hoy listing appointment would be just a really intense conversation. I think Nat’s got a way of being present to someone that a lot of real estate agents, they’re so worried about what they’re going to say. They forget that they are actually there in service of their client. Mm hmm.

What do you think about that? Is there a thing there?

[00:30:23] David James: I think negotiation these days, Peter, because the listing slash sales presentation, let’s call it a listing presentation, because that’s what everyone knows it as, is a series of negotiations. And you have four negotiations. Your selling strategy, your pricing strategy, your marketing strategy, and your fee strategy.

So the key to negotiation these days, from my point of view, is, it’s a question based So if I ask you a question, you’re the seller, I ask you a question, you’re compelled to give me an answer. Then I can ask you another question, or

alternatively, I can extend the conversation in the direction that I want to take that conversation.

And someone taught me this years ago, just simply how, why, what, when, who, where. Why would you say that, Peter? Where are you heading? When do you think you’d want to be there by? I think it goes beyond

[00:31:17] Peter Fletcher: that, David. I suspect that the best agents have gone beyond where, what, why, when and how, to they are genuinely there.

For the client. They want, they are genuine. I’m sure this is the case with the likes of Michael Keel, Peter Robertson, Natalie Hoy they, they are just, they actually Almost at a point where they don’t care whether they get the listing or not. They want to know that the David James makes the right decision for David James.

And if that decision happens to be one of those three, fantastic. And if it’s not, I respect your decision to go somewhere else and good luck. Good luck. Stay in touch.

[00:32:00] David James: Yeah well, having said that, Peter, it’s really one hour of intense concentration.

[00:32:07] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:32:07] David James: That’s what it is.

You can’t drift. You can’t go there. There’s a very good book out written by a guy called Dr. Adam Fraser called Third Space.

[00:32:15] Peter Fletcher: Third Space, yeah.

[00:32:16] David James: Okay, so, you and I are in First Space now.

[00:32:19] Peter Fletcher: When

[00:32:19] David James: I leave here, I’m going to a coaching session. Now I need that second space. I need to go into third space for 20 minutes or so and just clear my head of what I’ve spoken to Peter Fletcher about.

[00:32:31] Peter Fletcher: So

[00:32:32] David James: they do that. So when they arrive at the listing presentation, they’re ready for that intense one hour of concentration to secure the business and secure the best direction for their seller.

[00:32:44] Peter Fletcher: Yep. Yep. Yep. Go there. And concentrate, and be focused, and be present,

[00:32:51] David James: and

[00:32:52] Peter Fletcher: don’t let your mind wander, and don’t let the

[00:32:54] David James: That’s right, and another key to that we don’t talk about, Peter, is observation.

So if you’re really concentrating, they’ll put out some signals to you.

[00:33:02] Peter Fletcher: Yes.

[00:33:03] David James: They’ll put out some buying signals, for the want of a better word, that too, and that once again goes with your concentration, is your observation of the environment that you’re in and their reaction to such things as the pricing and the marketing and your fees, etc.

So

[00:33:21] Peter Fletcher: for someone who was wanting to select a real estate agent, I imagine that the experience of a good real estate agent. It would be an experience of smoothness, calmness, and relaxation, where you’d be able to just, they would put you at ease, and you would be able to relax in their presence. Would that be fair to say?

Yeah, it

[00:33:43] David James: is. But, you’ve also got to have the ability to ask for the business. You’ve also got to have that ability to close.

[00:33:53] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, so, and if you don’t, you’re just an order taker and the seller actually wants that. They do. Yeah. Because if the real estate agent’s not willing to ask for the business from the seller, then you’re pretty damn sure that they are not going to ask the business from the buyer.

That’s right. Yeah, you’re spot on. That comes at a conversation with the buyer going, Could you put another 50 grand on the table? Mm. And the buyers, like, yeah. And do they have the ability to overcome those objections and to get the extra 50 k

[00:34:27] David James: Mm.

[00:34:28] Peter Fletcher: Which goes into the seller’s pockets

[00:34:30] David James: And everyone’s, Pete, Pete, as I said earlier on, it’s a series of negotiations.

It like, there’s mountains and mountains of videos and podcasts and emails and blogs and that on sales.

[00:34:43] Peter Fletcher: Mm-Hmm. .

[00:34:44] David James: But I don’t see many on, on, on how do you negotiate and our whole business is a, is a series of negotiations and you’re absolutely right that, in all those things that you just said, and then, but at the end of the day, you’ve got to finish the negotiation with the close where, which is really gets down to asking for the business.

But if we want to give. Young, budding real estate people. Any advice today? Learn how to negotiate.

[00:35:07] Peter Fletcher: Mm-Hmm, .

[00:35:07] David James: And number two, learn your CM because then you’re gonna be putting people in there that you may have a relation with them, relationship with ’em for two years or more before they’re ready to sell.

But when they do contact you, or you are or you are in contact with ’em continually, when you go to do your listing presentations, 50% of the listing presentation around trust and track record, et cetera, is already ticked off, already done.

[00:35:32] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, because you’ve already had those conversations along the way.

It’s the

[00:35:35] David James: key to it, mate. It’s just,

[00:35:37] Peter Fletcher: like, yeah, well, here it is, and,

[00:35:39] David James: yeah. And when you would have started in the industry, I would have given you a packet of cards, the index cards, we call them.

[00:35:46] Peter Fletcher: Oh, yes, the old eight by five cards. I was a big fan of those.

[00:35:49] David James: Pretty good at that.

Everyone you meet, you’ve got to write their name on here. Yeah. And you had a tin box, ABC. Technology and not every CRM. I get people say to me, Oh, I don’t use a CRM. It’s no good. But there’s not a perfect CRM out there. But there is a CRM that you can use to put David and Cheryl James in it, our address, our email address, phone, and when we last had a conversation with them.

And for the CRM to remind me when I’ve got to, Ring them again. If you do that, you drive to that listing presentation on your agenda. You’re not worried about your competition, because you have an existing relationship of which 50 percent of your presentation’s already been accounted for.

[00:36:28] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would suspect that the best real estate agents, their listing presentation doesn’t need to be.

Be great. It, it is just like, mm. Well, I, I spoke to, I’ve spoken to Tash Welburn on a number of occasions. Mm. And Tash is a powerhouse around, yeah. Around here. Yeah. And Tash does not have a listening presentation. Mm. It’s just, she just walks in and they say. I want to list the property?

Okay, good. And she’d walk out without even signing the listing form. And it gets sorted out, at some point. And it’s just like, she’s got this level of gravita about her that people just go, okay. If that’s what you say, Tash, yes, I’ll do that.

[00:37:15] David James: That’s it, yeah, Peter. And one of my opening questions used to always be, Peter, Rita, great to see you, blah, blah, blah.

Can I just stop asking one question? Why am I here?

[00:37:25] Peter Fletcher: Mm

[00:37:26] David James: hmm. Why am I here? What do you reckon, David? Yeah, here to sell our house. Oh, you want me to sell your house for you? But that one simple question, then you could put all Because sometimes we go in armed with too much stuff, Peter.

[00:37:40] Peter Fletcher: And,

[00:37:40] David James: and I see when I, when we do role plays on listing presentations, people will have a dozen pieces of sales evidence.

Well, well, what’s my house worth? Yeah. And you just go, oh, really? And the one that we spoke about 15 minutes ago, we’ve forgotten about that one.

[00:37:57] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:37:57] David James: Sometimes we need to go in sort of unarmed, don’t we?

[00:38:01] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, yeah. Be a bit vulnerable. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Talking about listings and, prices and stuff, how much is a home, home is worth.

I’ve spoken to a lot of real estate agents and, and they say that, and I told this story a while back with about Michael Kiel’s, one of Michael’s listings and, really hard to work out how much a property’s worth today because you, you, you say, well, a sales evidence says that it’s worth 450, 000 and, but it sells for 550, 000.

Well, how do you know how far it’s going to run? How do real estate agents address this issue of. Of, well, what the punters would call it, what the public would call it. Underquoting. Mm-Hmm. What could they do to address that issue? Well, is that a ’cause these, the, I see it on Instagram.

Well, on TikTok, there’s this guy just gone absolutely ballistic about, agents under quoting, but I actually don’t think it’s deliberate.

[00:39:04] David James: Mm-Hmm.

[00:39:05] Peter Fletcher: Well,

[00:39:05] David James: well, Peter, perhaps, the only thing that would stop it completely is legislation. And, and, but that’s it. Where we’re vulnerable to this sort of thing is the fact that the rep’s sitting in someone’s kitchen, in someone’s

lounge room, or they’re sitting in the office, and they have a decision to make as to how they’re going to secure this business.

And that’s where it starts from.

[00:39:29] Peter Fletcher: And

[00:39:30] David James: you know yourself as an ex principal and licensee, etc. How do we control that? Well, we can only control it by observing what they’re doing, once they’ve written the business, etc. But, but to me I’ve always, and I coach people along these ways, that there’s three prices to a property.

Mr. and Mrs. Seller, there is your price, which may be a dream price, it might be a get out price, it might be an emotional price, then there’s my price, which if I’m called upon, I need to be able to justify that price. But I also want a price that I can go to market with, I’ll attract buyers. The third price is the buyer’s price, and believe me in this market, Who knows?

Who knows? Who knows? And so we need to attract, we need to attract those buyers. But we need to do it in a way that, that satisfies the seller, but also satisfies our own self conscious that we’re doing it the correct way. And that’s, and that doesn’t always happen. And the only way we can control those people is by legislation or alternatively we have principals that can rule it out in their office.

Because Pete, when we used to go to Branch Rewa meetings and someone would say, which we weren’t allowed to say because we are, that that’s when we were supposed to be a cartel or whatever. Oh, there’s people in this town that are overpricing. Oh, it’s not me. Or, or underpricing or it’s not me.

It’s always over. And you look around the room and and, and no one does it. Yeah. So we would never get the honest truth out of it. Who

[00:41:02] Peter Fletcher: is it that. So, what shapes your coaching and, your thinking around real estate? Like, do you have, do you have your own coach or do you have a, collection of mentors or associates that, sort of coach you or that shape you?

[00:41:17] David James: Okay. So, so, No, I don’t. But I elect to only follow one fellow, one, one coach or trainer on the East Coast.

I don’t follow them all. I think Leigh Woodward’s as good as, Leigh Woodward’s as good as what I’ve come across because I find that If you’re following too many people, you just end up with a lot of shit in your head, Pete, if you don’t mind me saying, and then you go, what do I do next? Number two, it’s my experience.

Number three, sometimes mentally I might need to call on someone and that’s Jet Xavier. And he gives me a bit of a wrap around the knuckles and says, Dave, come on, you need to get back on track, et cetera.

[00:41:52] Peter Fletcher: But,

[00:41:53] David James: but I think Pete, that Koso Konnections, Leigh, Ella Davar, Dr. Z, JAS, I think it’s my experience and, and, and, and really pay my energy.

I, I’ve still got all this crazy amount of energy. I’m a bit of a freak show. And, and so, so I can pick up on things. And, and in my coaching sessions, particularly, it gets down to a lot of observation and asking the right sort of questions because, because, a trainer comes into the room and says, this is how we do it team.

See you later. Trainers up on the stage do the same. Yeah. Whereas a coach get close, it gets close to his clients, and a coach is in accountable for the results that that person will deliver, not only to themselves, but to the business that they’re in. Yes. And that’s the difference that, that there’s a lot of accountability associated with it.

And the coach responsible for what they say.

[00:42:44] Peter Fletcher: Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm

[00:42:45] David James: mm-Hmm. Because that will determine the end result. Yeah. Mm-Hmm

[00:42:48] Peter Fletcher: mm-Hmm. . Yeah. But you’re a reader. I do. You sound like you read a fair bit. I do read a lot still, yeah. And aside from the third space, what books are you recommending? Righto. Any special ones?

[00:42:59] David James: Yeah, yeah. I’m a big follower of Jeffrey Gitmer. G I T M E R, who is not a real estate salesperson. He’s a salesperson. It’s a trainer coach out of America.

[00:43:11] Peter Fletcher: He’ll

[00:43:11] David James: teach you a lot about selling. Because I don’t think we do enough training and that around selling. Okay, so I read a lot of his and follow his videos and podcasts.

The podcast is called Die or Sell. Or Sell or Die. Yeah. So, And I’m currently reading a book from John C. Maxwell on leadership and it is directed at leaders, but, but there’s various chapters in there like character and influence et cetera that has got so much sales stuff that it relates to you as an individual salesperson.

[00:43:45] Peter Fletcher: Yep.

[00:43:46] David James: Yep. So I’m finding his leadership. relating to that, not only leading a bunch of people, but leading you as an individual. It’s, it’s really, really, it’s really, really good stuff.

[00:43:57] Peter Fletcher: Okay. Dave, one last question. Do you watch Lux Listings? No, you don’t. Right. Well, I’m not gonna ask you that. Oh, come on, Peter.

I was gonna ask if have you ever seen the movie the show selling Sunset? No. On Netflix? No. Oh. You’ve gotta watch these things, Dave. Right? Okay. They’re incredibly glib. Yeah. Portrayals of real estate agents. But my question was gonna be who who is the star of the show? If we had Luxe listings Perth, who would be the lead agent?

[00:44:25] David James: Oh, that’d have to be, I suppose, Vivian Yap, based upon her, her volume. She does enormous volumes.

[00:44:32] Peter Fletcher: Yes.

[00:44:33] David James: But, but Peter, it’s, there’s so many good people out there, mate. I, I, I coach a husband and wife team down in the Southwest. They’re not only right over a million a year in GCI, they’ve also got a dairy farm.

They’ve also got a breeding, they breed dairy cows, et cetera. Yeah. And they are really, really worth listening to and right, right through to someone that sells a hundred, hundred plus properties. But I obviously Vivian would be there and all those top people, but I’ve got a bit of a different view on this because I also get the opportunity to work with particularly single mums.

that are selling 30 40 houses a year, riding 300 400, 000 a year, and their time management and what they do as well as look after their kids and accept all that responsibility, that’s a story that we should be witnessing and listening to.

[00:45:23] Peter Fletcher: And that note, which is a beautiful note to finish on David we’ll make that happen.

[00:45:29] David James: Thanks Pete, good on you mate.

[00:45:30] Peter Fletcher: Thanks for being part of the show, Dave, and until next week, this has been Peter Fletcher. And that wraps up another episode of the WA Property Q& A. We hope you’ve found our discussion valuable and gained some valuable insights into the world of property buying in Western Australia.

Remember, while we strive to provide useful information, it’s crucial to consult with the appropriate professionals. Before making any investment decisions. Don’t forget to tune in next week for another exciting episode where we continue to unravel the mysteries of the WA property market. If you have any questions or topic suggestions, feel free to reach out to us.

Until then, happy property hunting and remember to seek the right advice for your personal circumstances.

Thank you for listening.