Transformations in real estate

Transcript

Peter Fletcher

[00:00:00] Peter Fletcher: Welcome to the WA Property Q& A, the podcast where I explore the ins and outs of buying property in Western Australia. I’m your host Peter Fletcher and each week I interview local property experts to help you to develop a deep understanding of the nuances of buying property in WA. From market trends to legal considerations, no topic is off limits.

But before we dive in, a friendly reminder, while we provide valuable information, it’s important to note that nothing discussed in this podcast should be construed as personal investment advice. Always remember to seek the appropriate professional advice for your specific circumstances. Now, let’s get started and unlock the secrets to successful property buying in WA.

Michael Keel, welcome to the show.

[00:00:50] Michael Keil: Thanks mate.

[00:00:51] Peter Fletcher: For those of you who don’t know you, Michael Keel has been around Real Estate in Victoria Park, Belmont and surrounds for about a hundred years. No, it’s not quite that long. Have a look at you, you’re beautiful.

[00:01:04] Michael Keil: It’s a third of a century. A

[00:01:06] Peter Fletcher: third of a century.

So close, about 30 years. 30 plus. 30 plus. Well, you don’t, you only look 28. Jeez mate, you’re

[00:01:15] Michael Keil: too

[00:01:15] Peter Fletcher: kind. So Mike, I let’s have a chat about About your story and where you came from.

[00:01:23] Michael Keil: Yep. What do you, where do you want me to start?

[00:01:26] Peter Fletcher: When I first met you or come across you, you were I think 18 or 19 years of age.

Yep. You were working with your dad for LJ Hooker Belmont. Is that right?

[00:01:36] Michael Keil: Yep. So, that was not the beginning. The beginning started with Mayor and Co. in South Perth. But that’s an interesting story as well, because I literally, cause I was 18 and it was predominantly a more mature industry, I literally had to beg to get a start to a guy called Brian Welsh and Laurie Gibson.

[00:02:01] Peter Fletcher: Yes.

[00:02:02] Michael Keil: Welshie gave me a go Gibbo thought Welshie was losing his marbles and I started out with them actually. So that was 34 years ago and the, I struggled in that area to, get a foothold.

[00:02:15] Peter Fletcher: So when does that take us back to 89, does it? So it’d be 90, 1990.

[00:02:19] Michael Keil: Yep. So, so I came in when, we’d We’ve seen that property boom and then literally everybody’s properties had sort of dropped by 40 percent very quickly and high interest rates were, had killed the, I think the recession we had to have, something like that. You started in arguably the hardest market that I’ve ever seen.

Yeah, it was very challenging. So, and interestingly enough, the area that I picked in South Perth, it wasn’t really an area I picked. It was just like, who would give me an opportunity? And that’s where their office was. And it’s interesting for any of your listeners, I know a lot of real estate people would be listening to this.

Sometimes you’ve got to find your right area. So after 12 months in that area, I then, killed me to say to the Brian Welsh, sorry mate, I’ve got to go to another area. And that’s where I moved across to Belmont. And that was more of a working class area and an easier demographic for me to get established where there was less competition.

And so, believe it or not, I then moved across with Laurie Kelly. So, I think everybody’s worked for Laurie Kelly’s over the years. Good old Laurie, yeah. Yeah, and unfortunately he’s no longer here, but yeah, Laurie gave me a start in Belmont and And that was greatly appreciated.

And then from there we moved over to LJ Hookers. So we didn’t stay with Laurie for long, probably, I don’t know, maybe another 6, 12 months. And then we found, the right home working with Glenna Stevenson and Jeff Stevenson, the mother and son formula. And that’s actually when dad came into real estate.

So a lot of people think. That dad got me, well he got me into real estate because he encouraged me to go into real estate but our family business was hotels and so dad was always a publican and then I started really getting some good traction. with LJ Hooker. And then Dad, through being in the pub industry, he’s he had some health issues.

And then basically he came into real estate with me and we became the father and son team, which was probably at the point where we met and go, oh, who’s this young kid? Cheeky little upstart yeah. I yeah, I remember walking into a home open and David Elphick and David had this Ripper listing in Lath Lane and it was like only 85 grand at the time right near the railway line in Bishopsgate Street.

And yeah, Dave sort of, thought, well, who’s this young guy really didn’t give me. any love or any time of the day and, obviously he thought I wasn’t going to hang around very long, but we’d actually now become very good friends over time. And yeah, he always brought that up and said, gosh, I remember you coming in.

I’m just thinking who’s this young kid? What’s he doing? Is he lost? So, so yeah so I had to overcome age as a bit of a, like, Obstacle, but I overcame it because I was always, I was pretty hungry and enthusiastic and yeah, I was always prepared to, work the long hours to help people find property that they’re looking for, so.

[00:05:23] Peter Fletcher: So you grew up in hospitality you grew up around hotels? Yes, yeah. Is that right? Absolutely. Here in WA, here in Perth? 100%, yep,

[00:05:32] Michael Keil: yep. The family, one of the family hotels was Irene’s Park Tavern. Which is down on the strip in Albany Highway, which is now known as Franklin’s. Is that right? Yeah, so, and Irene’s my grandmother on my mum’s side.

So, so yeah, and I was heading in that direction. I was going to go into the pub industry, and literally Dad said, Don’t go into, it’s a mugs game and he’d been, probably spent, I think when he came into real estate with me, he’d been in the pub industry for 30 years and he had a heart attack from drinking too much and smoking too much and the stress and that’s what led him to come into real estate.

But he also, gave me some really good advice to go down the real estate path and believe it or not, I was always Fairly good with people at, even at school,

it’s quite social I could mix it with every single group at school, whether you’re the nerds or you’re the cool guys or you’re the sports guys, I’d or the boarders.

Actually a lot of people at, I was at Wesley College, they used to think that I was a boarder because I was the only day student that did farm economics.

[00:06:38] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, right.

[00:06:39] Michael Keil: But I heard when I was playing first 18 in year 11, that it was a very easy subject. So,

[00:06:45] Peter Fletcher: I thought yeah, I

[00:06:46] Michael Keil: thought, yeah, I’m happy with farm economics.

That’s it was growing veggies and, having beehives during school. So, yeah, that was pretty cool. So, yeah. Yeah, so Dad he used to, some of his best patrons were real estate agents at the at the pub, and I won’t mention names, but a few of them would come in and Surely you can mention a couple.

Oh, okay. Well, I will I don’t know if he’s still around Trevor Parry.

[00:07:10] Peter Fletcher: Oh, yes, I remember Trevor. He used to

[00:07:12] Michael Keil: love having a beer with old men. And so that’s people like that, Hilary Holland. Yes. They used to come into the pub and and dad used to love listening to their stories and they always seemed to have a bit of money.

They always had a bit of time and freedom. And and dad knew that I didn’t, like being stuck behind a desk, even at school, I just, I was always wanting to be outdoors and he goes, mate, these guys, they’ve got it great. They’ve got money. They always seem to have time. They’re never in the office.

He said I reckon you could do well if these guys are doing well. And that was it, mate. That’s what got me into real estate, so it’s the best advice my dad’s ever given me.

[00:07:55] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, right.

[00:07:55] Michael Keil: And yeah, he often says, he’s still alive, he’s now approaching his mid eighties and he goes geez, I wish I just took 5 percent of everything you you know of, all your commissions.

He said, I’d be pretty happy these days, So, yeah. What did your dad do after real estate? Dad went moved down South. So he started his new life. So unfortunately mum and dad had to move on cause their relationship had sort of fallen down

[00:08:21] Peter Fletcher: and

[00:08:21] Michael Keil: that was mainly due to the pub industry as well.

And Dad actually did a Tony Robbins course and came back and made these life changing moves and one of them was to separate from Mum, and Oh, wow. Yeah. Thanks, Tony. Yeah. That sort of, took a, devastated the family, but yeah. These things happen and life is often, you’ve got to live a life you love and if you need to head in a different direction, like I get it, and and later on we’ll talk about that because I think you wanted to know about, what’s led me to where I am right now.

So, so yes, I’m, I was happy for him at the time I wasn’t, but I’m certainly happy for him now because it’s his life and he should live the life he wants to live, so. And then he bought a farm down because he originally before he went into pubs he was on a farm and and obviously met my mum and grandfather bought the pubs and, who better to manage the pub than family, because there’s a lot of cash money floating around.

So, you need somebody that you can trust to be in that position. And so he returned back to the farm. He bought a couple of school buses and he drove school buses for probably another 20 years. That was a lucrative little business. And he grazed and raised cattle. And yeah, he often says to me literally every day, he’s just so grateful, that he’s, doing what he’s doing and he can still do what he does.

So, so yeah, so it’s it’s a nice story.

[00:09:44] Peter Fletcher: So you. Went from hookers and there might’ve been one or two moves before that but you started Porter Matthews Belmont.

[00:09:55] Michael Keil: Correct. Yes. Is that right?

[00:09:56] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:09:56] Michael Keil: Yeah. So there was a move before that. Yeah. So, so we helped Glenist get to she actually was one of the only franchises in Australia to set up a second office.

That’s how much we were growing as a, as an office. And obviously my dad and myself were the top agents there. And she opened up a second office in Belvedere Street in Australia.

[00:10:18] Peter Fletcher: Cloverdale.

[00:10:19] Michael Keil: Yeah. Cloverdale. So she had one. No, it was it was actually Belmont. Yeah. So Belmont and then but on the border of Redcliffe and then she had the shop at the Belmont Forum.

So we, that was a really lovely period. It was great to see Glenys, had all that success and it was like the most consistent LJ hooker office in Australia and blah, blah, blah. And then I actually went out and set up Estates Realties and a lot of people don’t know this or would have forgotten.

So that was also down on Epson Avenue. Estates Realty. Estates Realty. And the guy who so I never had a real estate license, but I knew that I wanted a real estate office. Yes. So I went and paid a licensee to use his license so I could run my own real estate business. Mel Harvey, and he was a very entrepreneurial man.

He’s no longer around, but built some pretty iconic buildings back in the day in high rises. And, yeah, so he was an accountant, so he couldn’t say no to giving me his license. And yeah. Interestingly enough, that business I’ve probably had for only nine months and sort of really struggled because when you put on the business hat and you go from real estate agent, and you’ve got to remember I’m a fairly new real estate agent, so I’ve probably set up my own business in less than three years.

[00:11:34] Peter Fletcher: You still would have only been two years old. 20 something, early 20s. Yeah,

[00:11:37] Michael Keil: 21 maybe, yeah. So, so I was pretty driven to do that. Not many kids would do that and or young adults, whatever. And and then that wasn’t working. So like it, it was just too much for me to, the, to do all the accounts and marketing and get out there and sell.

And then I put on A receptionist and did property management. So I was doing it all mate at 21, believe it or not. And then I thought, nah, I’ve got to sort of, work out a better way. And because I was with LJ Hookers, I had a good relationship with all the corporate guys with like, Terry Terry Matthews and Bruce Porter.

So that’s where the Porter Matthews came along. And then there was another guy, which you’ll remember Mark Jones, Jonesy. So Jonesy was Mark H. Jones. That’s it. Mark H. Jones. Yeah. Come into real estate. Also a couple of years older than me had his marketing degree did a fantastic newsletter and sort of burst onto the scenes and and him and I, he was very talented.

Yeah. And he’s doing really well these days over in Melbourne as well. So, as a real estate agent, as running real estate champions. Yeah. I really help them. Yeah. So when myself and Mark closed down the business, he kept the the business name and and continues on in in Frankston in Melbourne.

So he’s and he said, so you

[00:12:54] Peter Fletcher: go from estate to check

[00:12:57] Michael Keil: to estate’s realty morphed into. Porter Matthews, wait for it, Keelan Jones, oh no, so actually, sorry, no, it went Porter Matthews Residential, that’s what it was because we were the residential division of the commercial business, Porter Matthews, which were the, what happened, the boys said to LJ Hookers Corporate they shut down the commercial and then they went and set up.

Porter Matthews. So, and I had the relationship there. I said to Jonesy, mate, your talent’s way better, running a business. Cause he was that way inclined. He had that mindset. And even when our future businesses develop, he was always the sort of admin guy, he had some great marketing ideas, but he was more, trying to keep the admin all together.

And I was more the sales and sales growth and sales manager, that type of role. So, So, we all ended up with a 25 percent share. So, Estates Realty just morphed into Porter Matthews Residential and then probably we operated in Kenning Highway for maybe a year and a half. And then we bought out Bruce and Terry’s share to so then my shirt and myself and Mark had 50 50 share.

We kept the Porter Matthews name because that was working that relationship, but we were ready to sort of, go it alone. And and then we became Porter Matthews Keele and Jones Realty. So that was a bit of a tongue twister for our receptionist. So, and we bought an office opposite the Belmont Forum and it was the worst house in the street.

And yeah, we had to renovate it I think we had it fumigated about thirty times because it it was really bad with cockroaches and so, yeah, so that’s how we got to Port of Matthews.

[00:14:44] Peter Fletcher: What happened

[00:14:45] Michael Keil: there? With Porter Matthews? Yeah. That was pretty amazing as well. It’s we grew very quickly.

We end up buying the building next door. He’s one of my reps. Oh, who was that? Was that Astrid? Oh, yes. Yeah, well Astrid became a director in Porter Matthews. We set up a Vic Park division, even though we were operating out of town. Belmont. So that was her baby but she was a very talented lady. She was.

Astrid, yeah great

[00:15:10] Peter Fletcher: prospector

[00:15:10] Michael Keil: Very good with databasing. So she was a gun,

And probably one of the best female saleswomen I’ve actually, come across, she’d be up there with like Dahlia Rikiki who was very talented, the best, so. But oh, I just remembered, at one stage there, sorry, I did actually go out and so it must have been before, yeah, so it was LJ Hooker Belmont, I left there and I went out to LJ Hooker Thornley.

Did you? Yeah. Okay. Before I set up the states groups, yeah, I’ll tell you this story and this is a ripper which was reminded to me the other day by Sam Safioti. Do you know Sam? Sam Safioti. Yes. Up in Rolystone Real Estate in the hills. Yes. Anyway. So, I was really climbing the ranks with LJ Hookers and I wanted to be the best, basically.

So who do you go and Hang out with the best. You hang out with other top performing operators. So I was smart enough to learn that. So, straight away, Dahlia Rikiki, best agent in WA at the time. I’m coming over to work with you, Dahlia, because I want to learn from you. I want to become, the best.

And I think I even told her I wanted to beat her and she said, oh, okay. No worries. So, I briefly went there, there was Neville Valicot, who was there, his son Rob works alongside me now and Nev was really, a real gun as well, and he’d actually

[00:16:34] Peter Fletcher: They’ve had some really good operators in there, the Fresenis no, the Fresenis are from Gosnells, aren’t

[00:16:40] Michael Keil: they?

Yeah, I’m not yeah, I’m not sure I’d heard of the name, I think they might have had their own one, but but yeah, they have had some really good operators and just consistent and been a top office for a very long time. So, anyway I said to Dahlia, but I want to be in that corner of the office.

And I, they had a desk and it was pretty basic. And I said, and I wanna bring in my own desk. So they said, yep, you can have that. We’ll just move everyone around. And and then then the desk came and the desk was one of these beautiful jra Oh my God. Like a lawyer’s desk. Right. So, and everyone’s, everyone else has got like little school desk, like, and

[00:17:17] Peter Fletcher: oh, like a 1990s version of the episode of Suits.

[00:17:24] Michael Keil: Oh man, did that stir up a hornet’s nest. Oh

[00:17:27] Peter Fletcher: my God. You didn’t have one of

[00:17:28] Michael Keil: those big leather chairs, did you? I did have a beautiful chair as well. And I was right in the corner where, you could see everything. And anyway, I’d forgotten about all of that, but I was at a luncheon recently and I caught up with my good friend, Sam Saffioti, and he was explaining to a mate how we had met and we’re working in the same office.

And then he told that story, I go, Oh my God, I’d forgotten all about that, Sam. And he goes, and Sam goes, Who is this guy? Who does he think he is? Like coming into our office, bringing his own desk, his own chair, getting his own position. So, and that’s how our relationship happened. But I only stayed there for probably about, I don’t know, six to seven or eight months.

And I had to move back to Belmont because even though I was working out of Thornleigh, all my listings were back in Belmont. So it was a bit like a bit silly, and obviously I.

[00:18:25] Peter Fletcher: You could do it now with mobile phones and the internet, but back in those days, it location of the office was

[00:18:34] Michael Keil: a really important thing.

Absolutely. And they, and Thornley had the, the best window display as you come into Thornley. And that was your internet. That was. Your website back then. Absolutely. So, and yeah. Yeah. And, obviously with being with Dahlia, she was a fantastic worker, she’s a great net worker as well.

And it’s very communicate community orientated. So I could see, I got what I needed to, sort of, move on from there, but the, she was working so hard that I hardly saw her anyway. So, but, success is

[00:19:08] Peter Fletcher: often the case with top, what do they say,

[00:19:10] Michael Keil: success leaves clues and daily Rikiki, work ethic, say no more, if there was a deal to be had, she wouldn’t make an excuse, she’d just go and do it.

So, and, so, the so yeah, back to Port of Matthews, so we grew we bought a second office next door, we renovated that, so these were houses on like 700 square metre blocks, probably grew to 20, 25 people maybe at its peak and managed about 400 properties we grew really rapidly.

And then oh yeah, we set up the Vic Park Division and then I was probably, I think, maybe, so that happened between 23 to 27 and then Jonesy and I said, let’s sell and go travel. No, I was about 27. Oh, it did, right, yeah. Yeah. So, and and I just worked, so hard to, get to that point.

And I was actually probably a bit burnt out, to be honest. And Jonesy was in the same sort of space. So, it was oh, well, mate let’s just sell up and and go traveling the world. And have a good time because we both, there was girls around, but we were, sort of, we wanted to go see the world and pretty much we sold the business.

We sold it to two people. So, Jake Nebone bought the property management business. And we wanted all of our clients because our clients were like, You know, a lot of them are friends and, and you develop relationships. So we wanted them to go to a specialist property management company because we thought that would be the best outcome for our clients.

And and then we sold the Port of Matthews database. I think we were like the very, very first real estate company possibly in Australia. To get paid for a database, but our database was that good. Wow. Great system.

[00:20:55] Peter Fletcher: Wow.

[00:20:56] Michael Keil: And that was bought by Ray Grogan and Robin Lees, who had Park First National.

And our brand that we’d created in such a short period of time, call it three, four years. They even, they and this was a feather in our cap, we thought that they were with the first national group Yes. A very large first franchise group.

And they dropped the first national and kept the Port of Matthews name.

. So we were really proud of that. That still Port of Matthews today, correct. Yeah. That we’d built something and yeah, it’s lived on and yeah. So that was a. That was a, a good feeling, that we could create something. So

[00:21:31] Peter Fletcher: databases are worth something.

[00:21:33] Michael Keil: Oh yes databases, like if I was to sell my database, well I wouldn’t sell my database today, I would just have somebody continue to Manage it for me and then generate a profit share from the database with other agents.

So that, that is my actual exit strategy when I’m ready to pull up stumps. So yeah. So you just

[00:21:56] Peter Fletcher: charge a clip of the ticket for

[00:21:57] Michael Keil: everyone that’s on the database? Yep. Give me 20, 30 percent and I’ll give you a beautiful client, and and even, if I’m around, I’d be happy to go and sit in on that, introduction like these these buyer agents out there at the moment, but a lot of those buyer agents are also acting as vendor agents.

So, so basically they help people find the best agent and take a clip of the commission. So, so I think you’ll see more of that as well in the future. And but yeah, that’s still a long way off. I’m like, I’m loving Real estate so much that yeah, it’s not even close to happening, if I’ve got another good 10 years health permitting and yeah, my love for the game is never been stronger, but I’ll touch on that because where I am now is, I’m in a different space and life evolves as well.

So, one thing when you’re running a business, when you’re starting, you want to become a good salesperson, then you want to be the best, then you want to run your own business, then go, oh, I’m burnt out, I need to have a holiday, or you’re in a partnership and you’re, you started out.

Both on the same, wavelength and then, you suddenly got different things going on in your life and you take different directions, so, so nothing’s forever Pete.

Yeah, yep. And you sort of always evolve. But getting back to the Porter Matthews days So when we sold the business, we did a very nice handover with both the property management and the sales business.

And and then we went traveling around South America, South Africa this is you and Mark? Yeah. And another mate. So, and then I was meant to be like a long trip, like, 12 to 24 months and but after three and a half months, I’d actually had enough of living out of a suitcase some unbelievable times like, that just etched in my memory of stuff that we’ve done, bungee jumping off the Victoria Fall, going in the carnival at Mardi Gras time, playing soccer on Copacabana Beach, climbing mountains you name it.

We did it, watching the cricket in South Africa,

[00:24:08] Peter Fletcher: a test

[00:24:09] Michael Keil: match with Australia versus South Africa. And we’re basically the only Australians there, in the banter and it was just amazing, going to Chile and going to a game with a hundred thousand spectators like a Derby clash in Brazil.

Like it was just amazing safaris, you name it. And I’m so glad that I did that because it’s interesting. When I sold the business, I was that tired and burnt out because I’d worked so hard to that point. That actually said part of selling the business and going overseas was then to explore other opportunities.

And it wasn’t too real estate related, so selling the business. And then I said in, into my mind, that’s it. I’m never coming back to real estate. I’ve done it had enough and it’s it’s, yeah, time for me to move on. And so we went. Part of the trip around the world was to look at opportunities and we saw like Red Bull was in South Africa, but it wasn’t in Australia.

So, So that was, we were looking for stuff and and that opportunity was there to bring Red Bull to Australia. But we focused on when we were whitewater rafting down the Zambezi and then jumping off the Victoria Falls. And you can imagine the solo men ad, where that guy’s drinking solo.

[00:25:30] Peter Fletcher: And

[00:25:30] Michael Keil: then afterwards we’re sitting back and reflecting and we’re drinking Zambezi beer and we’re going, I wish we’d bring Zambezi beer back to Australia like Corona. Again, that never, ever eventuated. So, and then I think after three and a half months, I was ready to come back home and Jonesy

was still continuing on through North America and then he was going across to Europe.

And he stayed there for a couple of years and he was doing personal training, that was his thing and he just wanted to free his mind of real estate. And then I came back and basically I went up to Kalgoorlie to do real estating in Kal, which I think, is that where you’re from?

Did you ever do real estate there?

[00:26:11] Peter Fletcher: Yeah, that’s where I started. Is that right? Yeah, with David James. David James and Graham Brown. Brown, James and Associates. Yeah. Okay. Well, I warmed your desk. Mate, you obviously did. So. I convinced them that young people were worth a start,

[00:26:25] Michael Keil: but you were a bit more mature once you hit Kalgoorlie.

Yeah. Yeah. So, mate how long did you last in Kalgoorlie? Well, four years, four years in real estate there. Yeah. Wow.

[00:26:34] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. So I got my license in the back end of 88 early 89.

[00:26:39] Michael Keil: Yeah.

[00:26:39] Peter Fletcher: And I had a conversation with Rita about, well, I’ve got my license. Where do I want to start up an agency?

I, and I don’t want to start up an agency in Kalgoorlie because I, I was a bit over the tin fences and the red dirt and and I said, what about Esperance? And she said, no chance, Peter, no chance. So Perth it is. So we come down to Perth and that’s, I started, well, I bought into an agency.

Yeah, it was Professionals,

[00:27:05] Michael Keil: wasn’t it? Yeah. The Keogh and Thurgood, I remember those days. So, these guys were massive.

[00:27:11] Peter Fletcher: Ah, well, yes that’s what it looked like on the outside. The Keo and Thurrugood organisation had six or eight offices and yeah, but it was a bit of a house of cards to be honest.

It was, a bit dysfunctional like most of the agents. Yeah. It was, like, yeah. I’ve got some, horrendous stories of those days and that period between ninety About 91 through to 93 where I had that big trust account accident that was just some of the worst days of my life.

Yeah, it was just shocking. So,

[00:27:42] Michael Keil: yeah. Okay. Well, we won’t talk any more about that. I’m sorry, I’m dead, mate. Oh,

[00:27:48] Peter Fletcher: look, I learned a lot about myself, I guess, at the time, but yeah, It was tough, but yeah.

[00:27:53] Michael Keil: Sometimes they say, mate, the best gifts come badly wrapped. So, Yes, that’s true, Mike. I’ve certainly had plenty of those along the way.

So, it hasn’t always been

[00:28:02] Peter Fletcher: kalgoorlie was good though, Mike. I remember I sold seven houses in the last 10 days in Kalgoorlie. Wow. Like, Now that, that’s a pretty fair effort.

[00:28:12] Michael Keil: That’s awesome. That’s a leap, mate.

[00:28:14] Peter Fletcher: I just might have been going, well, let’s get rid of all these.

I don’t know what it was, but it was just like, it just happened. Yeah. And why I never thought, geez, probably not a good idea to move and just stay here keep rolling. Yeah.

[00:28:27] Michael Keil: Well, a lot of money’s been made out of Kalgoorlie, mate. Oh yeah. Whether it’s mining and or real estate. So, yes, but yeah, so.

So I basically then went up to Kel because Dave James, who you worked with now they had Brown James and they were killing it, they were killing it prior to me selling the business. So they were doing like, huge commissions, for where they were in the day,

Winning all the AusNet awards, which I was a founding member of, which was a group of independent agents in

[00:28:57] Peter Fletcher: Perth.

[00:28:58] Michael Keil: And and I thought, And

[00:29:00] Peter Fletcher: AusNet has gone on to become the agency, so you kind of started the agency, you’re kind of the founder of the agency. Pretty much. I won’t take all

[00:29:10] Michael Keil: that credit. No, I think you should. Murray Joseph if you’re listening, mate, we know you were the

[00:29:15] Peter Fletcher: No, Murray didn’t start it, no, Michael Keel started it.

[00:29:18] Michael Keil: Murray was the energy, we, I just came along for the ride. So,

[00:29:22] Peter Fletcher: in fact, brown James was in AusNet, weren’t they? Yeah, they were. Yeah. So I was in, I’m kind of the founder of the agency because I was in AusNet as well. Yeah. Well,

[00:29:33] Michael Keil: I think we all were. Murray Joseph, he’s a good salesman, mate.

But so yeah, that’s how I sort of knew Dave. And then when we’d have the quarterly awards

The numbers they would share and I’d going, oh wow, this is and I had my own agency. I’m thinking, yeah, I’d like I’d like a bit of that. So, but interestingly in the time that I sold the business went away, came back.

I think I arrived and as I arrived in Kalgoorlie, three Campbellder nickel mines had closed down literally that week.

[00:30:02] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:30:03] Michael Keil: So, I it went from boom to bust in like less than 12 months.

[00:30:07] Peter Fletcher: Campbelder has always lived on the edge. Yes. The same with Koolgaardie. Absolutely. That day. Kalgoorlie just hangs in there.

Yes. But Campbellda just donkeys on the edge.

[00:30:21] Michael Keil: Yeah. So, so, so then, so I had the thoughts, well, I’ll go up there and if this business is as good as it is, I would then, approach David and buy into the business and Koso Konnections. And happily settle there. So, and I went up there and I actually did quite well in a very short period of time, not knowing anyone, but a couple of things that I did, and this didn’t go down too well with all the competitors.

Is I went up there and within a week I was on radio doing the live broadcast to my home open and the guy would go, now we’re going a live cross to Michael, the Kalgoorlie kid. Oh my god. And mate, so everyone knew me. In less than a week in town, it was at, and they’re going, who’s this guy?

Chris Fison. Calling himself the Kalgoorlie kid and he’s just flown into town. So, so, so I, I ran with it and I remember going into some appraisals and an old timer going, oh, so why are you the Kalgoorlie kid? And I goes, well, cause I’m the Kalgoorlie kid. So, there you go. Okay. Fair enough. So, but interestingly, I I really got into the community.

So, and I, love my football and so. And Kalgoorlie

[00:31:43] Peter Fletcher: is that sort of town. If you play football, cricket, darts, it’s a pretty good recipe for, or bowls, a pretty good recipe for listing a lot of property.

[00:31:52] Michael Keil: Correct. So, so Dave James said, mate, you got to play for the Kangas. And I’d been on, just come back from the world trip, I was actually pretty, pretty fit because we were training a lot while we were away and and then I started playing with Kangas and they won the Premiership that year, but I obviously didn’t hang around.

But I was leading a footballer of the year with about four best on grounds for the competition in five games and Subiaco were looking at me and all this sort of stuff. But I wasn’t there to play footy, I was there to sell houses, and footy was just a part of getting into the community. So, so yeah I’d sort of come in and go on the Kalgoorlie Kid, leading the footballer of the year.

And and then four months later I’ve had my mates, cause I’d sold Porter Matthews and I had a lot of my mates like Dave Quadros, Chris Rafael, who’s no longer around, unfortunately, and Is

[00:32:51] Peter Fletcher: that right?

[00:32:52] Michael Keil: Yep. And a few other people in the company and they’re doing these figures, like writing 60, 70 grand for the month in commissions.

And I’m up there in Cal sort of struggling to do 2030 and I’m going, okay career’s over boys. I’m heading back to Perth. And so yeah, I didn’t mind the town. I just, cause I got involved and and I reckon I could have stayed there, but. It’s hard to stay somewhere when, you know that there’s agents back in Perth that, fairly talented that you could definitely be taking a slice of that action, so, so that’s what I did.

And I had a restriction of trade on me. So I came back and worked with Porter Matthews cause when I sold the business, you’re sort of restricted to do things for a couple of years and then stayed there and did really well. And they were great. And then when the restriction of trade was up, there was another move, which was to realty executives which was Keith Howes.

And he’d come up with,

This sort of, 90s. Which is

[00:33:49] Peter Fletcher: kind of the agency model, 90s

[00:33:51] Michael Keil: version. It was. Yeah. He was the pioneer in Australia of that. It’s a sort of desk fee. So pretty sure there was a desk fee with Keith. Yes. I’m pretty sure there was. And then 1200 bucks a month or something.

Yeah. If you paid the desk fee and you’re a performer, then you would be getting, the majority of the commission. So I thought, this is where I need to be. And and It’s interesting because at that point in time, I’d had Estates Realty, I’d had run Porter Matthews Realty, and and I’ve now like just a salesperson again, with no management responsibility, even when I, went salesperson with David or with back to Porter Matthews and Realty XX.

And it’s like, God, it felt good. Like, I didn’t have all the admin or staff issues and things to deal with. And that was very lucrative period. So, And then I actually joined Realty Executives in Vic Park with my mate Dean Nicolo. Yes. So, and still, Dino’s, and I’ve still very good mates, so.

Dino’s still in that office. He is, and he is, and he’s a consistent performer.

And a hell of a great guy. And,

And we always have some great fun when we catch up.

[00:35:03] Peter Fletcher: And

[00:35:03] Michael Keil: so, and so I helped him build his realty execs business. Cause obviously a lot of people then followed me from Port of Matthews like your Carl Stoppix.

They came across, he was the Rewa number one office agent, I think maybe at the time. Or developing into that. And yeah, there was yeah, there’s a lot of people that came across. So, and

[00:35:23] Peter Fletcher: So Mike, what I want to, just cause your next move is Champions. And I just want to jump over that to and I think that’s a whole story in itself, like, because the champions journey, I think that’s, that’d be worth us doing a whole session on, on, on the champion on champions.

But for the purposes of today, what I want to talk about is. So you’ve done the champions thing and maybe had some time off and then you’ve got into, started your own business called michael keel.com.

[00:35:55] Michael Keil: No. So,

[00:35:55] Peter Fletcher: with the agency,

[00:35:57] Michael Keil: no. So, so after Real Estate champions ’cause we shut the doors on October.

31st or whatever it is. And then on the 1st of November, so literally one day later, I joined back with Ray Grogan and Michael Cullen at Porter Matthews Vic Park as a salesperson. And then I worked with them probably. for three or three, three years, maybe when we absolutely smashed it with them and help them, really gain some profile for their office.

And and built an effective business unit, had three or four PAs working with me and Yeah, that, I think I was still with them because the year that I had my best year in real estate, we’d sold 185 properties for the year. Fair enough. So, yep. And so, we literally, that meant I had to list 185 properties.

So every day for that year, I was selling or listing a property. And and we did about two, two and a half million in gross commission for the year. So, and then it was after that, 2014 I had a young child, a couple young kids and then I went to work. To set up my own business, which was michaelkeel.

com. And then and basically that was all my team just came across. We set up in Tom Essie’s office building in a serviced office. And we just ran out of there for for a while until I’d bought a real estate office over in Rivervale, which I still own. And that’s where my office is now.

But that was under construction because I bought it off the plan. So, yeah, so there was a time there where I was just the sales rep again with, under, with Bruce and, not, sorry, with Ray and and Michael Cullen.

[00:37:47] Peter Fletcher: So talking about your Michaelkeel. com when you were in Rivervale. Yes. You had a team, you had sales reps, you had I don’t think you had property management, did you?

No, we did property management. You did property management. Yeah. So yeah, you had it all traditional kind of real estate agency. Yes. You were doing well. Yes. But it kind of wasn’t all that it seemed. Yeah,

[00:38:06] Michael Keil: It was just a decision that you or actually not even a decision. It was just a choice where, so we were doing exceptionally well.

The branding, everything was, ticking along. Probably like in my mind, I thought, I’ve had the medium sized business, I’ve had the very large business like Champions. And then I thought, Oh, I can do a little, I can do a small business will be easy. But you know, what I’ve learned, it’s probably like doing a development, right?

If you’re going to build two homes, on a duplex block, you might as well build four homes on a quad site because it’s all the same the same process. You’ve got to go through the planning approval. So the thought that I had of having a small business and keeping it simple and, that time I was trying to simplify my life, cause young family and it wasn’t, you still got your payroll, you still got your property management issues, you still got trust accounting, you still got, Marketing, HR, everything.

So, and Jo, my wife, she worked in the business and we were driving along one day and she just broke down, and it led to like a sort of heated moment where I just said, look, If it’s, if this business is too hard, I don’t need it, I’m happy to let it go, we’ll, I’ll just go back and be a salesperson.

[00:39:25] Peter Fletcher: This is some of the, this is a moment that a lot of people don’t see about Business owners, the moments they go through and the people look at them and they, they see the nice car or they might see the apparent trappings of success, but what they don’t see is the wife.

breaking down in the car and the tears and the argument and the, Oh my God, is this what it’s how it’s all going to end moment. And there you go. They don’t, they often don’t see that.

[00:39:59] Michael Keil: No.

[00:39:59] Peter Fletcher: And

[00:40:00] Michael Keil: yeah. So, so we went through that moment and look, I was also, running a business again. There’s so many different hats to wear and ultimately, I’ve been a salesperson.

All my life. And then you morph into a business owner, right? So, but my real enjoyment is being a salesperson, and having that freedom of a salesperson, and just sort of being able to float in, float out, do your deals, happy clients next. And. So even though she had that moment, I was also, like going, yeah, this is my moment too.

So, so it wasn’t just about Joe. It’s like, I was on the edge as well where I go, you know what, let’s go sit down with the accountant. And that’s exactly what we did. Made an immediate appointment, went to Frank, my accountant and said, right, Frank. Here’s the financials, and we were turning over like 1.

5 million in commissions with, and, property management, which was only small because we were just building it and about eight staff,

And what that basically equates to your bottom line is 24 cents in the dollar. So, every million dollars you’re writing, you’re keeping as a business owner, huh?

240, 000 because of all the overheads. So basically for a 1. 5 million turnover, it wasn’t.

[00:41:25] Peter Fletcher: And for some people that sounds like, wow, why would you complain about 240, 000? But when you’re. When there’s two of you working between you somewhere in the order of 100 to 120 hours a week, it suddenly starts becoming, why are we doing this?

[00:41:43] Michael Keil: Yeah. And also not only that, but we were I was still probably 60 percent of the turnover. So I did have a lot of people in the, supporting me, but they weren’t necessarily being profitable. So, so yeah, so when I sat down and go, right, all this effort, running the business, a small business, it’s just like running a big business.

I don’t care what anyone says, you have still all the same things with staff and I would argue that

[00:42:11] Peter Fletcher: small businesses are actually harder to run than big businesses because If you’ve got a team of 10 and one person resigns, you’ve just lost 20 percent of your workforce, whereas if you’ve got a hundred and one person resigns, well, it’s, it’s not such a big deal.

[00:42:26] Michael Keil: Yeah. It’s still, yeah. Look, anybody running a successful business, I take my hat off to them, cause it’s it’s a lot of hard work, and these days, Yeah, we were looking at your staff always want more, they want a higher commission, they want the, operating cost you’ve seen what’s happened with builders, their operating costs are going up and and then you’re in a competitive industry where people are slicing fees.

So you, you were getting smashed from three, three areas, trying to always make your business as profitable as possible. And so we just saw the future was for us to go back and, be a sales person on my own. And I sort of, each year sell, I don’t know, bad year 60, good year 100.

It’s great. So probably a million dollars in fees myself and the company I’m with they have a structure that’s 80 to 85 percent.

[00:43:19] Peter Fletcher: Yep, so, so, sorry to interrupt there, Mike. So you’ve gone through that moment, you’ve gone to your accountant and you decide, okay, we’re going to Get rid of the business.

And the most logical choice therefore was to approach the agency. Is that right? Or did you? Well, there was other, there were

[00:43:36] Michael Keil: other choices as well. So, the other choice was to go back to Porter Matthews with Ray Grogan and Michael Cullen cause I had a very compelling offering as well which was, equally as good as the agency.

So it was a high commission split and but we ended up going with the agency because the brand was, a fresh brand. It was growing. It was more not localised. It had a vision to grow around Australia. And I feel that I made the right decision, even though if I did go back to Porter Matthews, because it was a hard decision, because I’ve got a good relationship with Ray Grogan, and I respect him, that it would have worked as well, because we just, we were young kids as well.

Like, I don’t want to be known, like, I’ve made this clear with a lot of people as the best agent in Perth or, a great agent, I want to be known as Michael Keel, the best dad husband, going around, that gets me inspired, so, if sacrificing a real estate business. gives me more time with my family.

I’ll take that any day of the week, right? Yes, there was a monetary decision made, but that wasn’t just the only decision. So we looked at it from a profitability point of view, but it was, my wife’s doing a lot of the back, back end work, which again, people don’t see that. And she’s a mum of three young kids.

So, so the move has been. Unbelievable, because I’m back doing what I love, and I’ve got just this amazing energy now, doing what I want, and I’ve got no aspirations. You could offer me, you go, Mike, here’s a million bucks tomorrow to set up a real estate office with me. So Pete, keep me a million bucks.

I’m not interested. So, I just, cause I’m living a life that I absolutely love where I can balance my family and I can still work hard and I’ve got no stress of property management issues, people calling me, alarms going off at night, receptionist calls in sick. You name it, I’ve been there, even organizing Christmas parties, cause you want to look after your stuff, but you know, there’s a lot of effort.

So where do we go, what are we going to eat? What time does it kick off? Oh, people can’t make that time. So you’re just, it’s just a lot of energy, and the energy I want to put in is to, my sellers. And then my family, so, so part of this whole journey of, moves that I’ve made and along the way I’ve sort of evolved and I’ve developed and I’ve, I know what I want out of life.

And and I’ve got it like I’m, I’ve got the perfect balance, like, and that’s why my energy and my, why would I want to get out of real estate? When it’s a great business, I love dealing with people. And then I can, when I go home to my family I’m home with my family and, I don’t have to worry about the business.

[00:46:38] Peter Fletcher: But not to paint too much of a, like a rosy picture of it. You still are a very hard worker. I sat down with you a couple of months ago I, we were at, I was telling David James this story. And you were at Laker doing some work on a, one morning and I walked up to you and I said, do you want company?

And you said to me no, I’m too busy, Peter. I’m, I’ve got all these calls and no, but sit down. And you were working, you were on your computer, you were

sending texts, you were making phone calls, you were talking to me. You, it’s when you are on, yeah. It’s not like you have this.

Constantly cruising, like you sound like as chilled as right now, but that’s not the way you work. You work at a very frenetic pace from what I can see. And even before we started this podcast you made about 25 phone calls in about 15 minutes just before we started. And then you had to quickly sit down and then you sort of.

I’m here. You’re here.

[00:47:36] Michael Keil: So that’s, yeah. And, but I love a good description. It is. But I love that, and my wife, she just sees me like and even coming here, like I was wrapping up a deal, right? So, so I rang you, I said, mate, I’m going to be late. And I was still in my sports gear, we’d been out, gone, I’ve been down the river early this morning.

I was walking down the river at five. So just before seven, then come in, I cook the kids brekkie, but I love that. That’s so now I’m rushing to see Peter, there’s three or four calls. I’ve got to quickly make bang, got people around me. Like I’ve got a team if that makes like my PA so I delegate a lot of stuff.

But I love that’s cause it’s like, I’m not standing still. So that’s my, and, but for a lot of people, they couldn’t do it, cause it was just like, they’re spinning too many plates. But yeah, no, it’s so yeah, so back to the so the champions, right. And and just to break it down and not the champion, sorry, the agency, right.

So, like, My energy like if we’re now looking at a monetary side of things, so when I was running or going out and doing a deal, having my own business and my own name up in lights, woohoo, right, I was, do a 10 grand commission, I’m getting 2,

[00:48:52] Peter Fletcher: 500.

[00:48:53] Michael Keil: Now I go out and do a 10 grand commission, and I’ve got bugger all overheads.

I only have one admin staff,

[00:49:00] Peter Fletcher: that’s

[00:49:00] Michael Keil: seven and a half thousand. Right. For the same energy.

[00:49:06] Peter Fletcher: Yeah.

[00:49:06] Michael Keil: So

[00:49:07] Peter Fletcher: I talk to a lot of principals around my age. So, so they’re getting at the North end of their career. And they bemoan their business. They bemoan the lack of profit. They bemoan them the amount of work that they’re doing, but they hang in there because it’s basically all they ever know or they’ve ever known.

And I. To you as an example of, well, if you could just let it go, there’s another life that you could have where you’d earn what you’re earning today and live a hell of a simpler life and a more enjoyable life. Yes.

[00:49:48] Michael Keil: 100%. And look a lot of the agency. Like 10 percent of the turnover is a massive company is all friends of mine that have basically, got to that point where they go, you know what, I don’t want to run this big business anymore.

I just want to go and be a salesperson. I want to have more time to play golf and, I want to go on more holidays. I’m going, yeah, bring it on. No that’s like, we’re only here for, A short period of time, you might as well do what you want to do, right? So, and if your business is, I see a lot of people, business is a trap.

Once you’re in it, you can’t get out. And so, any of the listeners that may be listening to this, like if, I’m always having coffees with people and just saying, just do what I do, cause you can sell, you can just go and sell. Imagine. Yeah.

[00:50:38] Peter Fletcher: Yeah. And selling homes is like, once you know the process, once you understand how it all works it’s not difficult.

Yeah. And it’s enjoyable. Yeah. And if you’ve

[00:50:48] Michael Keil: got the, most of these people have been running businesses, so they’ve got clientele. They just, they’d flick the switch and go from one, one, see, like, bye bye business.

Someone else can, have that now. I’m just gonna go over here and, do some sales and yeah. And then they don’t have to do 80, a hundred sales, like I do. They can, they could do 20 or 30 sales. Yeah. And and still make a decent living. Absolutely. ’cause especially if you are, ’cause there’s so many commission models now out there

Where, you’ve got to, you can keep the lion share and that’s interesting in itself. ’cause now. With the commission offers out there, like, even the average of agents. Can join the agency and normally they would be like lucky to be on 45

[00:51:35] Peter Fletcher: and

[00:51:35] Michael Keil: they’re on 75 if they’re, just ordinary. Yeah. So, and then you get the, if you keep your overheads down, and you collect your vendor paid marketing.

You don’t have to, like the example I gave you, I literally have to sell three properties in my old business to keep the same amount as selling one property in, under somebody else’s business. Like, and I’m no mathematician that’s why I had to go to my accountant. But once I saw that, it was like my decision, like, you know how quick I made, you know how quick I made the, let’s shut down michaelkeel.

[00:52:14] Peter Fletcher: com.

[00:52:15] Michael Keil: It was instant.

[00:52:17] Peter Fletcher: I just

[00:52:17] Michael Keil: said, right, cause there was other factors at play, but I just said, I went back to everyone. in the office said, guys, I’m no longer going to be running michaelkeel. com and employing you all, unfortunately, but I’m going to help you find another position that either come with me to the agency.

And some of the people like Brooksy, Brooksy came across. And he’s done very well. He’s doing exceptionally well. And he’s a smart fella and he he’s got some great systems and I’d like to think that I’ve had a big, involvement in that and like I love seeing him doing well.

There was a couple of other people that went off to Minick Real Estate and they’re doing well and their property management the agency took that over. But, like, I was so ready to, even my property management business, right, I made the deal so easy for the agency. I said, look, you just take over my property management portfolio.

Don’t worry about paying me. Okay. And just pay me a hundred percent on everything I write to, we come to a point where, yeah, right. Yeah. And so that was a no brainer. And we negotiated a deal where they for 12 months cause I wanted to fill my office up with salespeople, and then I could get a rent from

them, so they even, we negotiated that they would pay my mortgage for 12 months while I had time to bring in some people. My office is full now, even though there’s no receptionist, it’s more of a workstation area.

[00:53:48] Peter Fletcher: Yes.

[00:53:48] Michael Keil: So, it’s my PA in there Rob Vallacott.

Tom Mishak, he’s a gun. There’s another guy I’d recommend that you interview Tom. Cause Tom has he was a business owner and now he’s running his own little business under the agency and just killing it, like literally not looking back. I think he’s, I think his wife. I’m her most favourite person, because I encouraged him to just be a salesperson.

Yeah. So, because he wasn’t getting any enjoyment out of running a business and, yeah, so my office is full with great people. I’ve got Anil Singh. There’s another young guy. Anil could have gone and run his own business and done exactly what I did. He’s so smart because he listened.

He goes, Mike, I’m going to stay a salesperson. I’m not going to, I don’t need to. You can’t do any better than a salesperson. You don’t need to run a business if you’re a good salesperson, and he’s never looked back as well. So, I like to think the people that I have given advice to who have taken action have I know they’ve done well, so I feel good about that.

[00:54:56] Peter Fletcher: Mike, I think we’ll wrap it up there. Absolutely. It’s been a fascinating conversation. To have you share your journey with us it’s and I really hope that some young people and some older people will listen to this and take away the, that sort of spirit of adventure and and having a crack and also just not being.

Attaching your ego to a business and thinking well, that’s the only thing that I can ever have. So,

[00:55:22] Michael Keil: Yeah, there’s life after real estate. Yes. So, no, but thanks mate for having us and yeah, we’ll we’ll look forward to talking about the champions journey one day. We’ll do that one day. Okay, mate.

Thanks, Mike.

[00:55:36] Peter Fletcher: And that wraps up another episode of the WA Property Q& A. We hope you found our discussion valuable and gained some valuable insights into the world of property buying in Western Australia.

Remember, while we strive to provide useful information, it’s crucial to consult with the appropriate professionals before making decisions.

Any investment decisions. Don’t forget to tune in next week for another exciting episode where we continue to unravel the mysteries of the WA property market. If you have any questions or topic suggestions, feel free to reach out to us. Until then, happy property hunting and remember to seek the right advice for your personal circumstances.

Thank you for listening.