From Risk to Reward

Transcript

Peter Fletcher

Peter Fletcher: [00:00:00] Welcome to the WA Property q and a, the podcast where I explore the ins and outs of buying property in Western Australia. I’m your host, Peter Fletcher, and each week I interview local property experts to help you to develop a deep understanding of the nuances of buying property in wa. From market trends to legal considerations, no topic is off limits, but before we dive in, a friendly reminder, while we provide valuable information, it’s important to note that nothing discussed in this podcast should be construed as personal investment advice.

Always remember to seek the appropriate professional advice for your specific circumstances. Now, let’s get started and unlock the secrets to successful property buying in WA.

Nikki D’Agostino: Ha. It’s a good one today, Pete.

Peter Fletcher: Welcome to another episode of the podcast and one of my regular guests, Nikki Dino, my business partner at Resi Strata, [00:01:00] here to talk about all things strata.

Nikki D’Agostino: Yes. Well, risk and tenancy, risk and insurance. Some, just, just some cool stories today. I think let’s just do some storytelling. Yeah. Go. What, what, what actually happens in the day of a strata manager?

Peter Fletcher: So, yeah, what does, what, you know, what, what’s a. What are the sort of typical things that you’d handle during a course of the day?

Nikki D’Agostino: Oh, it’s so vast and so varied, and I think this is why I love the job because it is something different all the time. And as you know, Pete, we are, we’re a bit different when it comes to structure and routine. So, you know, I tend to like working on different things and so forth. Look, at the end of the day, I feel like we’re problem solvers.

Like we are literally contacted when there’s a problem and then we need to solve it. And that can be anything from financial a TO to, you know, the fun stuff like insurance risk. I was telling you a story this week, Pete, [00:02:00] about a management that we had put a proposal in for. And you know, I know them quite well as well.

Mixed use, so residential and commercial retail. And in the process of their insurance renewal, there is some. Gang crime happening. Now what the belief is with the media and the news, so I’ll go into the backstory first is that there is big bucks in illegal tobacco at the moment. Mm-hmm. You know, people, people bag it out and say it’s the vape stools.

It’s not the vapes that are making the money, it’s the illegal cigarettes. So I had a police officer friend. Discuss with me after this happened. And this poor tenancy, there were several of them targeted in, in early to mid August this year. Mm-hmm. Were shot up. So bullets fired into the tenancies that were.

Tobacconists. Now, the backstory from the [00:03:00] police and the media is that there are big, big money in it. Gang crime happening over east. It’s big on the east coast, and some of those gangs are now starting to come and. Try and get their turf here in WA as well. So our poor retail tenants, which are probably just, you know, innocent mom and dads selling smokes are being targeted.

And you know, I think historically we know about ta. Two shops being a high risk tenant. So I can talk to that. But in speaking with our insurance brokers and we work with Phil and Tyson over at Adapt Risk Solutions who partner with us on the portfolio and we work based on relationship and don’t accept commission.

So I always, you know, just outline that it is merit based and what we get from them and the years experience of working together. So. The insurance brokers when I was talking to them about this, so the, the poor strata company who had this one tenancy last year’s, just to put it into perspective, [00:04:00] last year’s insurance renewal was around the $12,000 mark.

And as this happened right when renewal was happening, and every time you go through renewal, you should be notifying the insurer of changes of tendencies, especially in retail and commercial or factories, et cetera. So the shooting happened, there was a tab tobacconist, and they got whacked with an insurance premium.

And I showed you that, didn’t I? Pete? Over $300,000. What? So that was an increase from $12,000 last year to over 3000, $300,000. 300, over $300,000. 300. Thousand that’s get out of there.

Peter Fletcher: So, as that’s uninsurable, like why didn’t the insurance company just say, we’re not gonna insure? Well,

Nikki D’Agostino: I was, I was actually quite surprised because, you know, I know from the guys that adapt when there isn’t.

We’ve got some other, which I’ll go into later, some other serious insurance matters going on. Not as interesting as this, but what, what they sort of [00:05:00] indicate is that if you become almost uninsurable Mm, that they’re able to then get insurance directly with Lloyd’s of London and then your premium might go from say, a $20,000.

High risk policy to about a hundred thousand dollars. And we’ve just had this advice from them on another scheme we are working on. So I was very shocked to see the $300,000 and I said, how is this, couldn’t they just go direct to Lloyd’s of London? Like, couldn’t that be worked out? And what they’ve advised is the risk profile of tendencies is one of the biggest matters in insurance right now in Australia because of all this and what I know of it from, you know.

Instagram and the media. But it’s having as much of an impact on premiums as, I think it was 2013 cyclones did for insurance premiums thereafter for a couple of years. And, at that time I had a strata portfolio in Kartha. So we were above the 26 parallel, already seen as cyclone risk and, and premiums [00:06:00] went from $10,000 to $80,000 on small survey stratas in that time.

And it was a big thing to manage as the strata manager. You know, to hear that a tenancy type is having the same impact as a natural disaster event on insurance premiums is quite, quite interesting. Quite insane.

Peter Fletcher: That is stunning. That’s, that is staggering actually. So. This insurance premium you are talking about, is the insurance premium for the whole of the strata scheme Strata company.

So what, what So strata scheme.

Nikki D’Agostino: That’s right.

Peter Fletcher: So, so it’s, it’s that insurance policy that went from 10 K to 30 K 300 k.

Nikki D’Agostino: Yeah.

Peter Fletcher: Okay. That’s just not doable. No, that would, that would send a strata scheme broke.

Nikki D’Agostino: Yes. So you can ask me what happened next, Pete? What happened next? Nikki, as, [00:07:00] as most do when there’s a big issue, they tend to find me and we talk about it and I obviously do a bit of consultation and help people out in the strata space navigating these.

Big issues. Mm-hmm. So we reached out to adapt and questioned a bit of it and helped them through. But from my knowledge as well, we let them know that, you know, with the reform of the Strata Titles Act, that there’s actually a piece of legislation now that allows if there is a particular occupant or owner that is causing increases to things like insurance premiums, that they can then charge that Right.

Increase to the. Yeah, to the law owner. So obviously in turn charged to their tenant in this case. They had a 21 cool 21 day cooling off period to pay the premium or be uninsured but a 30 day notice. So the tenant agreed to vacate as you probably would after getting shot up a couple of times, and then being hit with a $300,000 bill.

They’ve agreed to [00:08:00] vacate, but I’m just in limbo to see what happens next between the 30 days agreement to vacate and the 21 day cooling off period. And so I’m keeping abreast of this one. And

Peter Fletcher: interesting. It raises some interesting points around, well it, if you are in a mixed use strata development, there’s nothing that the strata company can do to, well, I guess, there could be in terms of the types of tendencies that go in there.

Nikki D’Agostino: So you’ll see with especially newer schemes that are developed like that, that there will be bylaws to say that any particular occupancy needs to be approved by the strata company, and owners, et cetera.

So, you know, being an experienced strata manager, if I saw. A tattoo parlor or a tobacconist coming in, I’d be automatically recommending to the clients to reject those such. Applicants and tendencies for this exact reason.

Peter Fletcher: And are you talking to Bist specifically [00:09:00] or like you used to be able to go into the, the local lotto news agency kind of thing and you’d be able to buy, you know, your, your slick pick and a packet of Siggi’s.

Are they classed as a tobacconist or, or is it this, the specific kind of tobacconist with the vapes and the,

Nikki D’Agostino: I think it’s going down that path. I would have to seek like what the insurers are saying around news agents that are doing that. But it is more around the illegal tobacco trade and you know, this goes bigger picture.

Just scale where governance comes in on an Australian federal level. You know, taxes have seen the increase in cigarettes now there’s illegal cigarettes being sold per cigarette under the counter legally to wa that tax. And you might pick up a packet for 20 bucks as opposed to 60 bucks. Mm-hmm. Or whatever they’re at now.

And this is, this is what it is. So, you know, I guess, we’ll go into drugs and meth labs [00:10:00] next, if you like, but this is, I guess, a safer trade than cooking meth. And, but it’s still illegal and there’s

Peter Fletcher: money in it. ’cause no, no one’s gonna put on, their rental application. Their commercial rental application.

I’m gonna be a. Illegal tobacconist, or I’m gonna be cooking meth.

Nikki D’Agostino: Yes.

Peter Fletcher: They, they’re gonna go in there with some other,

Nikki D’Agostino: with, with a retail tenant, they do have to disclose their business operations and it’s usually set into the lease what their approved use is. So they would have to say that they were there for the retail of.

Cigarettes and evaporative.

Peter Fletcher: Well, they’d have to say that, but then once the lease is in place, there’s no reason why they, you know, they, they’re not doing it in the back room. Yeah. Oh.

Nikki D’Agostino: There’s no reason why the hairdresser’s not doing it in back room. You know what I mean? So, but I mean, I guess it’s just at the moment, the target of this specific ring.

Peter Fletcher: Mm mm [00:11:00] mm That creates a nightmare for the lot owner. For the strata company, it’s and for and for you.

Nikki D’Agostino: Mm-hmm.

Peter Fletcher: Yeah. That would take a lot of work to unravel that.

Nikki D’Agostino: Oh, a hundred percent. And again, you know, that’s why they speak. It’s a big risk. Even as the strata manager, you know, I have advised this prospective client that they, they risk the strata manager, seeing them to be too much of a risk and refusing, you know, they might.

Get to the point where they’re not only not insurable, but not manageable. Mm-hmm. And that poses another layer of risk and things on the skin, so. Mm-hmm.

Peter Fletcher: Yeah. Nikki, I, I was interviewing someone yesterday for a job and I asked them, well, what is it that floats your boat? As in, you know, what, can you tell me a time when you had a moment that almost brought you to [00:12:00] tears that, you know, it was a real feel good moment.

And this person told me, a story about a first home buyer. They helped. And you know, it was a nice story. Do you have those sort of stories in strata management?

Nikki D’Agostino: Like nice stuff? You want some warm and fluffies? Look, I, I, well

Peter Fletcher: The reason I’m asking is you’ve just described some pretty like.

Hectic kind of scenarios and, and it sounds to me strata management is all about dealing with these like weird people and, you know, problems. Do you have any like those warm and fluffy moments?

Nikki D’Agostino: Yeah. Look, we, we have some wonderful people living in the community. And don’t get me wrong, you’ve probably got one or two in the entire portfolio that.

You know, like this. But the rest of it, like, what I love about it is the warm stuff, you know, the community engagement, the harmonious neighborhoods working together.
When you see them helping each other out and [00:13:00] you, you sort of putting things through, like there, there’s a lot of good news stories.

Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Like we’re talking. Groups of people coming together, whether they’re sharing a vision for what, what the next stage of the strata scheme likes or helping each other move in and out or because they’re

Peter Fletcher: living in pretty close proximity. Yeah. In, in strata. So what are the things that a strata manager could do?

Or, or what are the things that a community can do to. To build that sense of community and that sense of cooperation.

Nikki D’Agostino: Yeah. Look, I think this is a really big issue and one thing that I always say is, as your strata manager, we are not your authority figure and we’re, we are not here to govern you. So we are here to guide and help you enforce your bylaws and do that.

We are always going to take the approach of. You all need to live together. So there’s not gonna be any of this. She said, he said, and sharing that around and heard a story yesterday, I think you were sitting with me, Peter, where one of the clients said that. [00:14:00] Some personal information that they had sent to the strata manager was then forwarded to another owner and used against them.

Mm-hmm. Irrelevant. Irrelevant for strata records. Irrelevant like just about illnesses and things like that. Like nothing to do with the strata company, the property or anything like that. But strata managers are. Willy-nilly sharing this kind of stuff and personal information that’s then impacting and causing conflict amongst the community.

Or, you know, letting people know who’s breached or who’s made the complaint and things like that. And then you cause tension in the neighborhood and mm-hmm. As strata manager, you’re far removed. But we shouldn’t be taking a punitive approach. We should be working with these communities to guide them through mediate, work, things out live harmoniously.

Like I always say, you’re not all gonna like everyone Mm. You know.

Peter Fletcher: Is there too much emphasis on rules and, and and, and maybe missing the idea of, look, let’s just be good people.

Nikki D’Agostino: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And you, you get the [00:15:00] few that just love a good rule to take authority and you know. Stop on people and get people in trouble and they broke the rules and things like that.

And it’s like sometimes common sense needs to come into play, right?

Peter Fletcher: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about a recent conversation that we were in about an air conditioner. And you know, somebody wants to put an air conditioner, but it doesn’t look good. And yes, technically the strata company could get together and say, yeah, well, no, you can’t.

Because it changes the, the, the, the, the appearance of the lot. But the practicality is like, let’s not get wound, get ourselves wound up into these. Not,

Nikki D’Agostino: yeah. Dispute, like, you know, I think you sat in a certain SAT hearing recently and that went from whatever we are trying to [00:16:00] still work out, whatever that issue is, but it went from whatever the issue at hand was.

To a personal attack on individual members and the strata manager and their, you know, as we say in more of evidence you that it’s not about character, but once you bring that in, there’s the opportunity to defame each other.

Peter Fletcher: Mm-hmm. Mm. You mentioned the word unmanageable. When would, a strata management, a strata, strata scheme become unmanageable.

Nikki D’Agostino: I think, you know, this is dependent on each business, their expertise, experience, and willingness on the way below. No. I think if you are a high risk strata scheme for various different reasons. That you would need to pay a management fee.

Peter Fletcher: Yeah. Sorry.

Nikki D’Agostino: No, no. That, that’s, I’m thinking like you’d have to, there’s price for everything, right?
Like, well,

Peter Fletcher: you, you, [00:17:00] you said it yourself before with, with the insurance. So your insurance goes up because of the presence of a tobacconist or, a tattoo parlor. Then if you had a problem owner or Like a problems scheme then the price of managing that scheme should go up.

Nikki D’Agostino: Yeah, yeah. Try and always take into account when, you know, although we’ve got like a starting rate and it’s an all inclusive fee that we work towards I’ll still vet the strata company and, and get into the detail of what the conflicts and issues are that we’re about to be dealing with.

Because some of them, and as you’ll see, pay just within our portfolio and some of them are extreme I imagine the case where, you know, your insurance premium’s $300,000, it can’t be afforded. The public liability risk on that scheme is one thing, but it puts a public liability, risk, and ability to sue.[00:18:00]

The business, the agency. Mm. So you’ve got to bear that in mind. You know, it is the same as you would as a property manager looking at whether landlord’s, insurance or building insurance covers a property you’re managing and whether that’s part of your compliance requirements or condition for management.

And a lot of the time condition for management is that they have an insurance policy in place and it’s also a requirement under the act. So.

Peter Fletcher: YI believe you have a management that where there’s a tenant in the property mm-hmm. Properties owned by a government department mm-hmm. Tenant in the property who is causing a few issues.

Mm-hmm. And we’ll just say that’s an understatement. Yeah. You know, how does that impact on, on the, the strata workload? You know, what, what, how do you work your way through that?

Nikki D’Agostino: Oh, look, we, we will always revert to process and dealing with. Legal due process, government agencies, et cetera. You’ve gotta revert to a process or a [00:19:00] policy, right?

So we are very big on following the procedure for the due process if it does need to escalate or where it goes next. Again, we are not crime stoppers, we’re not the WA police. We are not. A government agency or a minister? Mm. So our powers are so much, you know, the not our powers, the strata company’s powers are so much.

In this particular case, the administrative burden on us as the strata manager is that there is, you know, I think on average six breach notices a week being sent for this lot owner requests to chase. There, there’s. This criminal as well as a residential Tenancy Act issue here. So we’re trying to come from all angles.

We are following up with various, we’ve got the police, we’re providing CCTV and they’ve got crime stoppers. We have several, a number of owners lodging complaints to all these departments through the [00:20:00] appropriate channels and where they need to go to try and. I guess show that impact and, and bring it to some kind of justice or resolution because at, at the, at the extreme, like I look at that personally from me as a human, and I think the risk to the people in this strata company I manage is very real ’cause of one delinquent.

And that, that concerns me. I would hate to. Think that something more severe happens, whether it is as examined. We saw one last week, I think there was an apartment in Atwell where a meth lab blew up again without, you know, anti-discrimination and whatever. The fact was, a meth lab blew up in this apartment where, again, similar scenario, there’s a disruptive tenant.

Lots of complaints. The strata company’s been trying to do what they do. But it’s then caused damage to property and risk to lives you know, firearms, fumes, explosions there. There risks to property and [00:21:00] lives, and that’s where I step in with the concern as a person, as well as the strata manager.

Peter Fletcher: This is gonna, this is gonna be a, become a fact of life for, for people. Yes. Because we can’t keep. Thou going on a, with the thousand and 12 square meter block like forever, we, like we’d be the Perth metro area would be stretched down to Albany and up to Geraldton by now if we kept doing that. So this is, this is just a problem that we are gonna have and just about every strata scheme I imagine is gonna have some sort of problem, child.

No,

Nikki D’Agostino: no. Like I said it, we’re talking probably two in my whole portfolio that are problems, like real problems, like yeah, okay. There’s always gonna be barreling unit two that you know, hates. Bob in unit six, who’s parking his car in the visitor’s bay and just wants breaches and justice for that. You know, like there’s, there’s sort of, [00:22:00] you know, from a personal perspective, consider where you live.

I always used to say, and I do it myself when buying property no matter where you’re gonna live or go, go check out the area, drive past it at various times of the day and nice scope around, have a look, you know, same goes for community living, I think. Scope out, know what you’re buying. Look at the Ag GM minutes.

Have a look through more than just those.

Peter Fletcher: Does old Mighty that was causing all those problems that do, that would not show up in the minutes anywhere, would it look?

Nikki D’Agostino: It does, and funnily enough, more often than it should, because a lot of strata managers aren’t real estate agents. So they don’t understand the impact on the property value by what they’re adding into the minutes, and they don’t necessarily coach their owners accordingly to what to keep in the minutes and what to discuss outside of that.

So, I think it’s going to get better, but there is still a lot of it in the minutes. Like you’d know, Pete, you, you work in [00:23:00] settlements and sales. We see many sales contracts and I, I see a lot of minutes and, and I have to giggle sometimes and just think, oh, these, you know, would, and I think I’ve said this before, Pete, but who your strata manager is, Ken?

Is starting to impact the valuation. So licensed value is actually looking at that kind of thing because something untoward in those minutes is going to devalue your property. Such as, well, it could be anything from concrete cancer to and like, unless there’s serious projects special, all the things going on that need to be minuted.

I just suggest keep your general business to. Out of the meeting discussions because barrel in unit two doesn’t need to be complaining about Bob in unit six and his car parking and there never being a visitor bay for anyone looking to move into that community to see. Mm-hmm. [00:24:00] It’s a bit of a funny, I think, you know what?

I heard something the other day, Pete. I just wanna put this out there and talking about, changes to the way we’re working and AI and things like that. You know, we’re seeing it come in, and this is going a bit off tangent, but I, I’m getting to a point. We’re seeing AI come in, change the way we’re doing things, and it’s going agentic, right?

So code as developers, you can build an app and what their. Recognizing as being the skill of the future are the social sciences. Because you’ve got the mind. You might not have the mathematical. Physics ability to code and do whatever, but you’ve got the mind to understand the next stages. So they’re seeing that web develop or like, app developers and things to the future are actually gonna be of social sciences and humanities as opposed to coding and mathematics.

Mm-hmm. And this is what I was gonna say, where like a really good strata manager. [00:25:00] Is, is very good with their social sciences. You, they understand the ecology, the environment, the community engagement aspects, social impacts, impact amongst, you know, there, there’s, there’s a lot of awareness and consideration in that point.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I do see a shift into the future. As a society where social science is going to become a very desirable skill. And for me, if I was looking to recruit, that is what I would be looking at. How do you

Peter Fletcher: balance that against the efficiencies brought by technology? So every time barrel from unit two rings you up, it’s costing you time.

And if you wanna build a big portfolio, you simply can’t have. Every barrel from unit two calling you up. And the idea is for Beal to put a report through some sort of app or, or which they don’t. So how do you balance that, [00:26:00] wanting to be personal and, and having that connection with wanting to create efficiencies that you can scale.

Nikki D’Agostino: Pete, I’m gonna bring this back to something you said to me when I was starting out this business and getting a bit frustrated with. Time being weaponized by certain individuals at times. And you said to me, 80% of your time will be taken up by 20% of your clients and in. In that is a lot of truth. So, like I said, we’re talking about the major issues I’m talking to out of an entire portfolio.

We’re talking barrel in unit two. Again, we’re talking 20% of of your whole portfolio that are gonna be calling you and needing advice. You know, I’ve got some lovely council members that take their job very seriously and and like to call me just for a check. Can an update on what’s happened through the week.

Every Monday just a, you know, just a Monday chit chat about Strava and I’m like, cool, you care,

Peter Fletcher: [00:27:00] God. That’d the nightmare.

Nikki D’Agostino: You know, it’s not my favorite thing to do on a Monday, but. Like, I think the beauty of automation and what you are saying is all the efficiencies are excellent because it’s letting us do more of that human stuff.

Now the next generation doesn’t necessarily want you on the phone talking to them, but there are some that do.

Peter Fletcher: Nikki, when I first started selling real estate I subscribed to the real estate professional magazine and you know, it was black and white and you know, the guys like Tom Hopkins and, and Co.

Zig Ziglar. They were big back in the day. But one of the things that came out of that, that magazine is that the importance of putting your after hours number on your for sale sign, and I can still remember my after hours number was 2 2 1 8 2 0 4, way back in Kalgoorlie before we even went to the, the eight digit or nine digit numbers.

Now, what that sent a message was we were 27, [00:28:00] 24 7. So basically somebody drove past my for sale sign. They could write down my phone after hours number, they could go to their home and at nine or 10 o’clock at night, they could ring me up and have a chat about their real estate question. And you think, well, that’s customer service.

But then. What about the mental health? What about the, the, the, the respect of personal space? And there’s a long way of asking the question, is it gonna come down to strata managers, property managers, kind of service professionals of all kind, making their time only available? During certain times, will there come a time where you’ll stop giving out your mobile number?

Will there come a time where you’ll restrict access to yourself? And it is that something that [00:29:00] that strata man, the strata managers of the future will start looking at.

Nikki D’Agostino: Some are already doing that, you know, putting out there, what to do in an emergency, what to do after hours, how to contact. Them to leave an email so it’s actioned in the morning, et cetera, et cetera.

Mm-hmm. You know, I think like any homeowner, if you weren’t in a strata complex and something happened, you’d be calling the police, the contractor doing whatever, like again, take a common sentence approach. Don’t need your strata manager to action absolutely everything in your life. But. In saying that I, I set personal boundaries.

You know, my phone goes on to do not disturb or anything like that. I, we, we have meetings for a living, so you’re not gonna get direct access to your strata manager every minute of the day.

Peter Fletcher: Mm. Might

Nikki D’Agostino: be respectful of personal boundaries and professional boundaries. I don’t think there’s a requirement to have for a strata manager to have to answer after hours as the licensee.

If there was a building burning down, I’d wanna be contacted after hours and know about it because there is a significant risk. If it’s [00:30:00] just you know, Beryl from unit two, who’s waiting on a quote from last week, contacting me at six 6:00 PM while I’m cooking for my kids. Well, respectfully Beryl, I will get back to you tomorrow if you can please drop me an email.

Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s after hours. I’m not in front of my computer. I have a family and a life outside of what I do.

Peter Fletcher: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah, it’s going to become in especially, as portfolios scale and some of the bigger agencies like they, they are massive. And while. Are you going to have like a restriction on the amount of FaceTime you actually get with your, with your strata manager, property manager, whatever.

Nikki D’Agostino: Look for, for us, like how I’ve structured the business and, and what works is we encourage that everything happens in business hours. Now this comes from the commercial real estate mindset that I’ve worked in for a long time. But. Everything’s included if it’s [00:31:00] within hours. But anything that’s actioned outside of the hours incurs an additional fee.

And that’s the only time we’ll charge an additional fee is for after hours. Some clients wanna know that they’ve got access after hours and things like that. Some need it, some will need a building manager or concierge, you know, if they’re of that scale.

Peter Fletcher: Mm-hmm.

Nikki D’Agostino: But you know, as you know, Pete, we are also just waiting to pilot our first.

AI agent. Mm-hmm. You know, will our AI agent be the after hours, do the initial workflow if, if your building’s on fire contact Nikki directly, and then I know that’s it is an actual emergency ’cause it’s been vetted. Mm-hmm. Rather than just barrel calling for a quote. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Peter Fletcher: There’s some very interesting telephone systems out there at the moment that will, that are emerging with conversational ai where you can actually go.

Yeah. That’s great. Beryl it sounds like you. This is not an emergency. I’ll, [00:32:00] I’ll get Nikki to call you tomorrow.

Nikki D’Agostino: I think a famous one that started that and, and it did very well, was his name Tom from Wine Club. Don’t, do you know the Tom from Wine Club story? No.

Peter Fletcher: So

Nikki D’Agostino: I think he was one of the first sort of AI phone call.

Dudes. Okay. One club grew their business substantially. He did all their prospecting and cold calls. Mm-hmm. And he would call and have a conversation with you and take the lead and then put it to where it needed to go, but essentially like a first cold call lead. Mm. Processor. So it’s already happening.

Mm-hmm. Mm. Training ours to, to do more workflow and, and things around strata and helping our clients within a scheme and knowing about them and knowing what we know. Help them through in those times. So if it, if it’s after hours, ai, Nikki that’s doing those calls, betting them, and then putting them through if appropriate, great.

Like I’m all for it.

Peter Fletcher: Mm. How does a, how does a strata [00:33:00] manager go about growing their business? Nick?

Nikki D’Agostino: Mm, good question. Look, is it. We often say, say this, you know that we are sales led, we’ve got sales ability and, and. This goes for any industry that isn’t trained in sales or worked in sales. You might be really, really skilled at what it is you do and really specialized, but you don’t know how to tell the world that and sell that.

Look, a lot is sort of personal profile and branding, just that ability, the network. You know, we’ve built our entire portfolio so far on referral at this point. What’s next? Are you,

Peter Fletcher: are you gonna go on TikTok and, and start?

Nikki D’Agostino: No, no, no. You’re

Peter Fletcher: not.

Nikki D’Agostino: No. We’ve obviously started like playing around with ai Nikki, who’s doing a little bit of content on Instagram for a laugh.

How’s

Peter Fletcher: that

Nikki D’Agostino: going for you? Yeah, lots of, lots of funny feedback. People actually enjoy it. It still feels weird. It still feels like, oh gosh, that’s me. Even though it’s not you, it’s not you talking, it’s not your school. Like you are guiding that and piloting [00:34:00] it, but it’s not you, but it’s still you.

Peter Fletcher: So AI Nikki is kind of got a really posh accent.

Nikki D’Agostino: Oh yeah. Sometimes she does. Sometimes she sounds exactly like me, total Aussie,

Peter Fletcher: but when. But when I listen to you sometimes you actually pronounce your words very, very well and it almost sounds a little bit upper class.

Nikki D’Agostino: Well, you know, when I traveled through the US when I was 18 years old everybody and I was with a group of Australians and everybody kept asking if I was English and I never thought I had an English accent.

So, I don’t know, I think I’ve actually got a bit of an Italian. Twang like a Aussie, Aussie, Italian sort of twang. But I’m well spoken because I’ve had to be as a, like listening to her second language growing up and, and accents and things. So I dunno. But you know, she can speak Mandarin ai, Nikki? She can.

She speaks German.

Peter Fletcher: Oh my god. I would be scared to hear that one.

Nikki D’Agostino: Oh, I might put a German one out for your Pete. [00:35:00] Oh my God.

Peter Fletcher: Now Nick, you’ve you’ve waited until you have got mar well, effectively. You got married, two kids, and then you decide to throw into the mix starting a strata management business.

Why, what, what, what is the driver there?

Nikki D’Agostino: I think it was, it was time like having kids, all of a sudden there’s a legacy component, right? So there’s, there’s something bigger than you that you’ve got to leave something behind for. I think I’ve spoke to you, you know, about personal things around the ability to get insurances and things like that and not so having to build something of my own that will ensure my family if something were to happen on a, you know, risk negative side.

At the same token, I’m at a point. In the career, the changes to the legislation, having the licensed agency, it was just an idea that worked. And as you know, I had sort of built out this whole budget and [00:36:00] business plan for a couple of years before that and toyed with the idea, but never jumped into it.

Hmm. The opportunity came to buy a portfolio, which we obviously pulled out of, but that, that’s what triggered me. ’cause I was like, oh, here’s a great opportunity. We didn’t go ahead with it and I’m glad we didn’t because what we’re building organically is, is far. Far more valuable. So, you know, our startup costs haven’t been huge, which is very lucky.

Yeah. Yeah. A couple of mistakes to start with, but it was kind of the push I needed and I look at it as like my mini MBA, so I paid and studied that for 12 months, or I could have just took two months or a due diligence period to decide now’s the time to stop.

Peter Fletcher: And there are businesses and I think who is it Oakfield?

Is it? B strata. I’m not sure whether that is correct, but they grow through acquisition.

Nikki D’Agostino: So a lot do, yeah. There, there’s probably three or four big players mm-hmm. That are growing through acquisition. Mm-hmm.

Peter Fletcher: [00:37:00] And so, so what they, they just, they’re just using their acquisition to fund further acquisition, is that right?

Nikki D’Agostino: I’m not sure I would, I would say that’s the model that it’s going with, you know? So

Peter Fletcher: I believe that’s the exceed model. You know, that they’ve, they’ve just hoovering up rent rolls and they’re using the cash flow that they’re spinning out to grow their business, both now in sales. Yeah. In settlements.

Yeah, who knows? Yep. Where that goes.

Nikki D’Agostino: There’s, there’s a couple like that, that it’s taking a very commercial approach and, you know, hat off to you, however you wanna grow your business is up to you. I’m liking our values led kind of sales led business development, networking relationships and I think it’s, you know, at the moment, a point of difference for us.

We’ve also got a a bit different P where, you know, and we talked about this, is there an issue with acting as a licensed agency to just be able to take over, [00:38:00] like these guys can just buy a portfolio. Say you are in the innovated terms, you now belong to us open their bank accounts and everything. Well, we can’t open bank accounts outta the side and contract to my license.

I can’t just transfer a, B, C, strata managers. Whole portfolio to myself. I need to actually actively go through and engage with them to sign up. It’s,

Peter Fletcher: yeah. So you and I have had, we’ve got a slightly different view on this. Mm. And I, I’ve, I’ve always thought that strata management is in this sort of weird nether world of, it’s, it’s not quite a real estate agent, and it’s not, not an accountancy, it’s a, like, it’s.

It’s, it’s kind of, I’m struggling to get my head around it. I’m glad you are. I’m not sure what the future’s gonna be there.

Nikki D’Agostino: I think I’ve got a little bit of vision of what that future looks like and I’m building it. It is a bit different. You know, we bring accountability, whether [00:39:00] is no accountability, are we getting ahead of

Peter Fletcher: government?

That part is really important. I, I just hope that the, the, that. That the industry, whatever shape that looks like, whether it’s scar or rewa or combination of both or something else that emerges, takes care of things so that the government don’t come in and get too heavy handed on the legislation side of things.

Mm-hmm. I think that could be really dangerous.

Nikki D’Agostino: Yeah. It’s, we have very different views. You know me, I, I think just at a, at a sub, like work on the UBA Act, put sub registration for strata manager to work under a licensee, and away they go. We gonna else, we will fight. We will fight. And I went and did my cert four.

We’re waiting for the regulation changes, you know. Did I need to? I don’t know yet, but it adds value and, you know, I,

Peter Fletcher: I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta write a proposal to, Department of [00:40:00] Commerce and whoever they’re yes. I was gonna ask another question there, but I’ve, I’ve lost it. Hmm. In terms of your motivation, Nick, like you, you, you are a high energy.

Motivated person. Is, is that, is that hard to, to keep going and you know, like what about the, you know, what’s your advice to the young kids coming, coming in as, as new strata managers? Like,

Do they all have to be high energy like you or, or can they,

Nikki D’Agostino: no. Look, I’m big, and I always say this with the team.

It’s not about the hours, it’s about the energy. So it’s not time management, it’s energy management. And knowing yourself well enough to do the type of activities that work in the time is really good. I, as you know, Pete, we’re very different. I’m not very structured. I, I work around the clock. I do things in my own time because I know that’s when you’re gonna get the most out of [00:41:00] me.

Peter Fletcher: Mm-hmm.

Nikki D’Agostino: At the same time, I probably sleep more than most people. I need at least 10 hours a night. So, oh my God. You know, as much as I’m this high energy ball of energy out there, I’m, I’m sleeping a lot more. I’m, I’m in bed early and I’m up late.

Peter Fletcher: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess it’s understandable that you’d need a lot of sleep with the energy that you put into the day because it’s, maybe you don’t, I

Nikki D’Agostino: was born this way, like, look at my family.

Like mom, mom’s probably 10. How is she? 65? And she’s the energizer bunny. Like, yeah. She, man, she, she, even our energy’s me. She makes me tired.

Peter Fletcher: Yes. Nick. In terms of overseas offshore offshoring, of strata jobs, but I, I’m gonna say professional services generally. Mm-hmm. What’s your thoughts there?

Where’s that, where’s that heading? Because there’s a lot of vilification of offshore stuff.

Nikki D’Agostino: Oh, [00:42:00] I love you know, me for Shaka. Hello. She’s the most amazing thing I brought her on when we launched, and it was she and I, and she’s helped me grow and build this business. Now Shaka is very well educated.

She’s an experienced trained high school teacher, and she’s worked in commercial insurance. Now she takes initiative. She’s got the right mindset. She’s, she’s been in startup, she’s motivated, she’s amazing, and she’s happy to be there. You know, like not only does she add value and everything, but she’s, she’s happy to be there.

Like she’s, she likes the work. She wants more. She wants to learn. She’s got that hunger, and I think. Building a culture. That’s what you wanna find in your, well, that’s what I wanna find in my people. But that’s what you wanna find in your people, in your team. I always say to you, Pete, I want the business owner mindset, but I, as the business owner, I need to empower them to do that.

Now, Shaka is far more educated than me, you know? I’m just looking, I was looking at bringing on an accounts admin [00:43:00] to assist me alleviate, and I, you know, I’m finding. People with MBAs and, and accounting degrees that wanna do trust admin, learn something, work for an Australian business and things like that.

And you know, obviously for the cost effectiveness, a lot of agency and businesses are going down this path. So, so it’s becoming more understanding. But you know, where am I gonna hire that sort of caliber? Of person educated like that and understanding like people smarter than me that I can afford right now.

You know, at the end of the day and having these brains by my side, you’ve gotta work with them. Like obviously it’s a big part about how you treat them and the relationship and how you train them. And what I always say to people because. One big thing is I always hear people go, oh, I’m just gonna get a VA because they’re so busy and this and that.

And I’m like, no, not the right thing to do. Be like bringing someone new into your business [00:44:00] if you are so busy. Getting a VA is not the solution because you need to put the time and energy and training into them to help them become what you need for them and, and be very open and clear about that.

Mm-hmm. You know, and so they’re working remotely. You need to keep that connection and relationship. Together and, and share the vision and show them the why. Mm-hmm. Whilst if you are so busy and you think just bringing someone on’s gonna give you a solution, well that’s not the case. They’re gonna need to be onboarded and trained, and you’re gonna have to show them the ropes and, it’s gonna add an extra workload to you.

So if you don’t see the value in dedicating three to six months to getting to that place, don’t do it. ’cause it’s not fair on that person. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Peter Fletcher: Nick, that’s all we’ve got time for. No worries. Today. There’s I, I think that that right there is a whole nother conversation. Mm. That would be worth having. So. Awesome. Thanks for taking the time to come in. Thanks Pete. And until next time. [00:45:00] And that wraps up another episode of the WA Property Q&A.

We hope you found our discussion valuable and gained some valuable insights into the world of property buying in Western Australia. Remember, while we strive to provide useful information, it’s crucial to consult with the appropriate professionals before making any investment decisions. Don’t forget to tune in next week for another exciting episode where we continue to unravel mysteries of the WA property market.

If you have any questions or topic suggestions, feel free to reach out to us. Until then, happy Property Hunting and remember to seek the right advice for your personal circumstances.

Thank you for listening.